Vasectomy in Poland is illegal? Why?

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 15:29 #91
Teffle: This reeks of nanny type moral superiority and condescension to me yes but it's not connected with religion and that was my point.

♂

Mar 1, 11, 09:29 #92

Vasectomy should be illegal everywhere. Vasectomy causes terrible short and/or long term pain complications in about 30% of men who make this mistake. Surprised??? So was I, but finally figured it out. Men with reasonably good outcome like to brag same as gamblers only talk about when they win. Where do you think the sperm go after vasectomy? Do a little real research before you open your big mouth. Millions of men have their life ruined by vasectomy, chronic and terrible pain. I speak from EXPERIENCE. 99% OF MEN CHOOSE TO NOT TELL OF A BAD OUTCOME. You are more likely to get the truth from a wife than her husband, ask the wife about his vasectomy, not him. If Poland has outlawed vasectomy this should be the best reason. A civilized country would do this for her citizens. So far as common sense goes remember: Men don't get pregnant. Vasectomy is sometimes part of a womans divorce plan. Check the statistics.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Mar 1, 11, 09:35 #93
luv2flyu2: I speak from EXPERIENCE. 99% OF MEN CHOOSE TO NOT TELL OF A BAD OUTCOME. In other words, there is a 99% chance that you are lying when you say that you speak from experience. Thanks for dropping by.

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	Mar 1, 11, 22:22 #94
Raj_ryder: so why is vasectomy illegal? Vasectomy is illegal in Poland so as to make sure this doesn't happen: http://hnn.us/articles/1796.html

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Mar 1, 11, 22:28 #95
Magdalena: to make sure this doesn't happen: An irrelevant and pointless link. If anything it's banned due to a synergy of relligious prejudice and the fragile male ego.

♀

Edited by: Magdalena Mar 1, 11, 22:32 #96

jonni:

An irrelevant and pointless link.

Have you read the article?
I find it very relevant and to the point.

"Polskie prawo (art. 156 §1 k.k.) stwierdza, że kto powoduje ciężki uszczerbek na zdrowiu w postaci pozbawienia zdolności płodzenia podlega karze pozbawienia wolności od roku do lat 10. Tylko wskazania lecznicze sprawiają, że zabieg ten jest legalny. Dokonany z innych wskazań, nawet za zgodą lub nawet na żądanie osoby zainteresowanej jest uważany za nielegalny[1]."

Translation mine:
The Polish law (art. 156 section 1 of the Penal Code) states that whoever causes serious bodily injury by depriving a person of their fertility shall be punished by a custodial sentence lasting from 1 year to 10 years. Only medical reasons make this procedure legal. Performed for any other reason, even if the person involved agrees to it or expressly demands it, the procedure shall be deemed illegal.

There are lots of other contraceptive options out there, and there is no reason to perform an operation which may or may not be reversible, but could easily be abused under the wrong conditions.
.

♂

Edited by: jonni Mar 1, 11, 22:44 #97

Magdalena:

I find it very relevant and to the point

Then you've clearly got a screw loose if you think that the subject of the article, Nazi Eugenics and its origin, have anything to do with contraception.

There's a reason most European countries don't ban vasectomy - as far as I know only Poland, Ireland and the Vatican City have any problems with it.

Evidently you think people shouldn't have freedom over their own bodies.

♀

Edited by: Magdalena Mar 1, 11, 22:50 #98

jonni:

Nazi Eugenics and its origin, have anything to do with contraception.

Not contraception as such, but sterilisation. Have you actually read the article?

jonni:

Evidently you think people shouldn't have freedom over their own bodies.

Contraceptive pills, patches, condoms, contraceptive injections, IUD, contraceptive implants, spermicidal gels... and more. These products give me all the control over my body I need.
On the other hand, vasectomies and hysterectomies are invasive procedures which can be theoretically performed without the person's knowledge (e.g. during an unrelated operation) and, as in the US, in Sweden, or in Nazi Germany, can serve as a powerful tool for "improving society", i.e. eliminating unwanted individuals from the gene pool. I wouldn't call that "freedom over my own body", quite the opposite.

http://www.corvalliscommunitypages.com/Americas/US/Oregon/corvallis/eu geneics.htm

I know, the links are about the US, but I use them as an example of what Poland is trying to steer clear of. I also understand that these sort of atrocities don't happen in the US anymore, but they did well into the seventies.

♂

Edited by: jonni Mar 1, 11, 23:00 #99

Sterilisation is a form of birth control, chosen by many.

Magdalena:

Contraceptive pills, patches, condoms, contraceptive injections, IUD, contraceptive implants, spermicidal gels... and more. These products give me all the control over my body I need.

Gosh, you certainly take plenty of precautions - talk about belt and braces! But what about the freedom of others to choose a different method?

Magdalena:

can be theoretically performed without the person's knowledge

Is that a reason to ban anyone from choosing the procedure or criminalising a surgeon who performs it as an elective procedure?

Magdalena:

Nazi Germany, can serve as a powerful tool for "improving society"

The Polish ban is pre-war. Nothing to do with Nazi Germany.

Magdalena:

. I wouldn't call that "freedom over my own body", quite the opposite.

We aren't talking about your body - what you do with it is your choice. The issue here is the freedom of others to choose this option.

edit

Magdalena:

I know, the links are about the US, but I use them as an example of what Poland is trying to steer clear of. I also understand that these sort of atrocities don't happen in the US anymore, but they did well into the seventies.

Forced sterilisations are an atrocity if done on a large scale - the handful done in the UK over the past few years were all decisions of the high court in exceptional circumstances. The other 99.99999999% were done as somebody's informed choice.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Mar 1, 11, 23:03 #100
jonni: Ireland Er nope?! Two friends have had it done. A now deceased and well known DJ had it done years ago and spoke about it. No issues in Ireland - maybe the church has voiced disapproval, I dunno - nobody I know would pay attention anyway. Certainly legally, medically, it's routine and has been for years.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Mar 1, 11, 23:04 #101
Teffle: No issues in Ireland. That's good - did they change the law?

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Mar 1, 11, 23:05 #102
Since when? This is news to me.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Mar 1, 11, 23:06 #103
I'm sure birth control used to be illegal there. I knew a lady who used to take suitcases full of various things across on the ferry.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Mar 1, 11, 23:09 #104
Ah OK. A bit different but I get your point. But vasectomy wasn't viewed the same way as the pill or condoms etc as far as I know. Anyway, that particular anachronism was addressed over 30 years ago Jonni !

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Mar 1, 11, 23:14 #105
Teffle: Ah OK. A bit different but I get your point. But vasectomy wasn't viewed the same way as the pill or condoms etc as far as I know. Anyway, that particular anachronism was addressed over 30 years ago Jonni ! Sensible really. So it's just Poland and the Vatican who ban it! Anachronism - yes, it must have been at least thirty years ago.

♀

Mar 1, 11, 23:17 #106

jonni:

Gosh, you certainly take plenty of precautions - talk about belt and braces!

I hope you are only pretending to be so... well... unintelligent.

jonni:

he Polish ban is pre-war. Nothing to do with Nazi Germany.

You conveniently forget the actions of the US (also pre-war). BTW, Nazi Germany was also largely "pre-war". It didn't suddenly appear on the map in September 1939.

jonni:

The issue here is the freedom of others to choose this option.

Well I'm sorry, but this one freedom in the case of Poland has not been granted. So they probably need to choose from one of the various other legal options out there, or go abroad to have their tubes tied / snipped.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Mar 1, 11, 23:20 #107
it must have been at least thirty years ago I wasn't even "of age" then - you must be knockin' on a bit then Jonni! (sub-topic related feeble pun intended) Magdelena, you sound it bit paranoid to be honest.

♂

Edited by: jonni Mar 1, 11, 23:22 #108

Magdalena:

You conveniently forget the actions of the US (also pre-war). BTW, Nazi Germany was also largely "pre-war". It didn't suddenly appear on the map in September 1939.

And why should this limit peoples' planned parenthood options today?

Magdalena:

Well I'm sorry, but this one freedom in the case of Poland has not been granted. So they probably need to choose from one of the various other legal options out there, or go abroad to have their tubes tied / snipped.

Why should they?

You may as well ban tattoos. They're invasive, have associated health risks and Nazi Germany also forced people to have them.

♀

Mar 1, 11, 23:25 #109

jonni:

And why should this limit peoples' planned parenthood options today?

Because we should learn from history?

jonni:

Why should they?

Because that's what the law of the Republic of Poland says. Unless and until that law is changed, things will remain as they are. You should start campaigning for the legalisation of sterilisation in Poland if you think it's such a good thing. Why not? Maybe you are right and they will change the law and everyone will be happy. ;->

♂

Edited by: jonni Mar 1, 11, 23:31 #110

Magdalena:

Because we should learn from history?

If there is a lesson to be learnt. And in this case there isn't.

Magdalena:

You should start campaigning for the legalisation of sterilisation in Poland if you think it's such a good thing. Why not? Maybe you are right and they will change the law and everyone will be happy. ;->

I expect they'll do that themselves eventually, or more likely an EU ruling will do that sometime far in the future, when they get around to it. In the meantime, there's no shortage of cheap flights to, dare I say it, more enlightened places. If you dislike vasectomy so much, why don't you campaign for it to be banned in the UK - you'll find plenty of space under the sandwich board for your presumably bulky supplies of:

Magdalena:

Contraceptive pills, patches, condoms, contraceptive injections, IUD, contraceptive implants, spermicidal gels... and more. These products give me all the control over my body I need.

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	Mar 1, 11, 23:44 #111
jonni: there's no shortage of cheap flights to, dare I say it, more enlightened places. My thoughts exactly. jonni: If you dislike vasectomy so much, why don't you campaign for it to be banned in the UK UK is not my country, and I don't presume to tell the citizens of the UK what their laws should be.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Mar 1, 11, 23:48 #112
Though as citizen of an EU member state who has lived there for over six years, you are fully entitled to have your say when it comes to voting.

♂

Edited by: isthatu2 Mar 2, 11, 00:11 #113

Teffle:

Just have. Ok, it's not illegal but still you must "have children".

This reeks of nanny type moral superiority and condescension to me and, yes, has the smell of the church about it

Only thing it reeks of to me is lawyers circling like sharks round a whaling ship.....
Its not illegal,thats been clarified,the law is there to prevent unwanted operations being carried out on vulnerable people,correct? So,the only reason those restrections will be in place is to cover Doctors backs from law suits a few years down the line when the kid grows up a bit and realises that the woman of his dreams wants his children or she is walking......
Bit pathetic comparing a modern man or woman making an informed choice regarding the course they want their life to take and Nazi enforced sterelisation programs. In fact its damned insulting all round,to those women in striped dresses being forced in front of X ray machines and to the womam or man today who decides for whatever reason that they dont want any/more children,damned insulting. Sorry,but this really is a case of just who on gods earth do you think you are?
And damned hypocritical too,on the one hand you are happy to trot out the same vile stereotypes of one set of the nazis victims and on the other you seek moral highground condeming informed voluntry sterelisation as a "nazi" idea.....yuck.

♂

Oct 17, 11, 12:44 #114

Polonius3:

Why would anyone want to have themselves surgically mutilated (vasectomised) for the sake of debauchery with impunity. Makes about as much sense as silicone implants for air-head females. And going through life without progeny is a poor excuse for life indeed.

Some friends of mine in UK had a child and the pregnancy almost killed the woman. They had tried a number of years and been told it wasn't possible for them to conceive... yet they did.

The husband chose to have a vasectomy to limit the danger of another pregnancy which might endanger his wife. Their son is healthy and delightful. So, not a matter of debauchery or life without progeny in their case.

♂

Oct 17, 11, 12:58 #115

Polonius3:

: ...for the sake of debauchery...

Debauchery? So it's coitus-highly-improbable-us or it's debauchery?

Or it could be well balanced, normal, healthy, intimacy between people who care about each other? No?

And.... I had it and there was no mutilation or negativeness at all, apart from all the horde of female medical students observing. Made me feel a bit of a prick and I wanted tell them "It's cold in here Ok! Ok!!".

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Culture and Customs of Poland	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 02:09 / May 27
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com