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Views on Theory of Evolution in Poland?

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Jun 8, 11, 19:39 #1

Is there a general view among Poles on the theory of evolution?

In America, I've noticed that the people who are opposed to the theory are usually religious. I've encountered some religious nuts such as Baptists who go absolutely crazy over the fact that public schools teach the theory in class.

However, I don't think religion would be an issue in the case of Poland since it's a predominantly Roman Catholic country. The RCC doesn't require Catholics to take the story of Genesis literally so I doubt religion would influence the views of Poles too much.

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 8, 11, 19:52 #2
Pope John-Paul II even endorsed the theory of evolution.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Jun 8, 11, 19:56 #3
Ogien: In America, I've noticed that the people who are opposed to the theory are usually religious. more Autisic than religious I reckon.

OgienThreads: 15 Posts: 420 Joined: Jul 22, 09 ♂	Jun 8, 11, 20:06 #4
Des Essientes: Pope John-Paul II even endorsed the theory of evolution. I recall the RCC also spoke out against Protestants who were trying advertise intelligent design as science which it clearly is not.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Jun 8, 11, 20:12 #5
Ogien: intelligent design just a fancy word for creationism

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,999 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Jun 8, 11, 20:15 #6
Ogien wrote: In America, I've noticed that the people who are opposed to the theory are usually religious. it is only the religious that oppose it and the high ranking officials in the RCC mostly endorse the theory of evolution (someone already mentioned PJPII).

OgienThreads: 15 Posts: 420 Joined: Jul 22, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ogien Jun 8, 11, 20:18 #7
milky: just a fancy word for creationism Indeed it is fancy. The first time I heard that term, I thought it was referring to some kind of belief that extraterrestrials engineered us. Check this out. Poland and Europe in general don't look too bad but I can't say the same for Turkey and the US. Percentage distribution of evolution theory acceptance by country.

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,999 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Jun 8, 11, 20:21 #8
Ogien wrote: I thought it was referring to some kind of belief that extraterrestrials engineered us. isn't that Scientology more or less?

OgienThreads: 15 Posts: 420 Joined: Jul 22, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ogien Jun 8, 11, 20:25 #9
FUZZYWICKETS: isn't that Scientology more or less? Well, the only things I know about Scientology are the stuff they showed on that South Park episode making fun of it. :-) If I remember correctly, some alien named Xenu had our souls exploded from a volcano. I'm probably saying it wrong but it was something like that haha.

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Jun 8, 11, 20:56 #10

Ogien:

some alien named Xenu had our souls exploded from a volcano.

Xenu took his enemies, the Thetans, to Earth and chained them to volcanoes and then nuked them. The souls of these unfortunates cause troubles for us humans.

milky:

more Autisic than religious I reckon.

No, it is really what the OP mentioned, namely the prevelance of evangelical Protestantism, most especially Southern Baptist, religion in many parts of the USA.

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Jun 8, 11, 21:33 #11

Des Essientes wrote:

Xenu took his enemies, the Thetans, to Earth and chained them to volcanoes and then nuked them. The souls of these unfortunates cause troubles for us humans.

Think that sounds crazy, how about this one....I mean, this one TOPS them all:

A god existed a long time ago and he created humans about 200,000 years ago. This species was terribly adapted and equipped for life on earth, only lived to around 20-25 years old, 25% of them died at birth along with their mothers, most died shortly after from disease or famine and a few lucky ones made it to adulthood where they stole, murdered, raped, scavengered and gathered their way until they eventually got eaten by a lion or all their teeth fell out. Then, after 198,000 years, God decided, "I think I will intervene" and he delivered his "son" through the vagina of a virgin on Dec. 25th in the deserts of the middle east of all places to teach mostly ignorant illiterate starving peasants (I'm not a historian, but I think places like China were far more advanced and intelligent during those times and probably would have received such information a little bit better and made better use of it...but I digress) the word of God. Let us not forget the story of Noah, turning water into wine, a man living in a whale for 3 days, the story of Adam and Eve, honor killings, mass rape and genocide, fire and brimstone, all to end with him being nailed to a cross and dying......only to miraculously turn into a zombie and rise from the dead on Easter, a day where you should hide eggs, eat chocolate rabbits and jelly beans, poisonous Peeps marshmallow candies (love 'em) all nicely packaged in an "easter basket". Let us not forget starving yourself for 40 days leading up to this day and making sure to put ashes on your forehead on the Wednesday before JC took a dirt nap. Oh, and God apparently didn't like meat on Fridays. go figure.

and that's just scratching the surface of that crazy religion.

whew!.....the things people will believe in this world!

GrevadosThreads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Jun 8, 11 ♂	Jun 8, 11, 22:51 #12
whew!.....the things people will believe in this world! That one is pretty funny, no doubt. But I think my favorite one is the story of how there was nothing, and then it exploded, creating everything. The things people believe, right?

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Jun 8, 11, 23:17 #13
Meet Maciej Giertych, Euro MP and creationist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maciej_Giertych He's the only prominent Pole I've ever heard of who has a problem with evolution.

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Jun 9, 11, 01:09 #14

mafketis:

Meet Maciej Giertych, Euro MP and creationist.

It's a bit more 'forgivable' when someone that age believes Young Earth Creationism. A lot of people of that age must find it odd after reading the bible as literal truth to be told that it is likely we have the same ascendant as the ape. He lectured at a Uni named after Copernicus. The idea of evolution might seem as alien as what NC was spouting to people of his time. There's a brilliant interview on you tube with Richard Dawkins interviewing a Catholic priest, worth a watch if your into this kind of thing.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,228 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 01:26 #15
erm, people, dont blame "Protestants" for this BS, darwin was Cof E ........its ,as said before an American religious phenomenom taken up by some "christians".

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 9, 11, 01:52 #16
isthatu2: dont blame "Protestants" for this BS, darwin was Cof E It doesn't matter that Darwin was a Protestant. The fact remains that in the USA it is Evangelical Protestants, not Episcopalians, that promote the disbelief in evolution. Deal with it.

GrzegorzK	Jun 9, 11, 02:38 #17
Poland is 88% Catholic per census data, why would you even ask this question

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,228 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 03:11 #18
Des Essientes: Deal with it. I dont need to deal with anything,its your country held hostage by these fruit loops. Again,the whack jobs left these shore and ended up over your side of the big pond. So, deal with it.

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Jun 9, 11, 03:43 #19

Most Polish people don't give a damn about Darwin's theory.
This is typical American sport and American conflict.

Personally - I think that the both sides of this war are incredibly silly.

First - Evolution Theory believers.
This theory is 150 years old! "Theory" is by definition something that need to be proved. A mere possibility.
For a 150 years generations of scientists are working hard to prove it, to make "Darwin's Theory" a "Darwin's Law" and they fail!
Why? Because this theory is full of holes. It looks good from the distant, but the details are a mess.
But there are people in America that are ready to fight for it.
Well... going at war over something that awaits to be proven for 150 years is a... Act of Faith, don't you think?

Second - Creationists.
It is written in the Bible that God created everything. But there is no explanation how he did it. It's a mystery.
One for sure - "to create" doesn't necessary mean that all the animals and humans just pop-out from the thin air in a split second.
This way of "creating" may be observed in the cartoon films - not in the Bible.

I would laugh to death if in the last moment of the World, just before the final End the God would announce:
"Oh, one more thing. I created all animals and you humans using evolution as a tool in my holy hands. Why? Because it suit me that way. Not your concern."

Lol

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 9, 11, 03:55 #20
enkidu: "Theory" is by definition something that need to be proved. It is called a theory but it has overwhelming evidence in its favor. It would be "proved" if there was an official court of science but science doesn't need to claim that it's more than a theory for it to be useful in advancing our understanding of life on Earth.

HavokThreads: 14 Posts: 1,508 Joined: Mar 12, 10 MEMBER ♂	Jun 9, 11, 04:09 #21
It's not a theory, it has been proven a long time ago. Stand by your glasses steady and drink to your comrade's eyes. Sad as it is, natural selection exists in different shapes and forms free of your interpretation. Beware Poles. :)

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 04:40 #22
enkidu: This theory is 150 years old! "Theory" is by definition something that need to be proved. A mere possibility. Absolutely not. Not in science. Your statement is just a gut feeling and you clearly have no understanding of what a scientific theory is.

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Jun 9, 11, 04:46 #23

I have no problem with the theory of evolution (yes, it's still a theory although there is much evidence to support it). There are however, some troubling questions. Here is one of them;

Mammals remained small, often bumblebee size and no larger than a modern day rat until about 65 million years ago. That's supposedly when dinosaurs died out. We humans supposedly are descended from these bug-eating mammals. I find it difficult to fit human evolution into this 65 million year span. In short, I don't believe that 65 million years is enough time for us to develop from (being) rats to Homo sapiens. A mere 65 million years just doesn't cut it. Of course some might explain it as Divine intervention.

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Edited by: z_darius Jun 9, 11, 04:58 #24

ZIMMY:

I have no problem with the theory of evolution (yes, it's still a theory although there is much evidence to support it).

And it will be a theory. Just like Newton's theory of gravity is "just a theory" and yet apples don't fly up from the trees. A lo of people often confuse a hypothesis with a theory. Hypotheses may become theories, but theories don't become laws. The laws are often parts of theories, and theories are not unproven laws.

ZIMMY:

I find it difficult to fit human evolution into this 65 million year span. In short, I don't believe that 65 million years is enough time for us to develop from (being) rats to Homo sapiens. A mere 65 million years just doesn't cut it.

And that is a great example of a "theory" in not a scientific sense. The example also contains a fundamental error in argumentation. Just because something may seem unbelievable, or difficult to accept/understand carries no weight.

OgienThreads: 15 Posts: 420 Joined: Jul 22, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ogien Jun 9, 11, 05:09 #25
GrzegorzK: Poland is 88% Catholic per census data, why would you even ask this question What are you trying to say exactly?

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Jun 9, 11, 05:10 #26

z_darius:

Here here: Newton's laws of motion :)

I agree - in Science everything is just a "theory". And every theory can be overthrown by the new evidence. That is a beauty of science.
But Darwinists are not scientists. They are believers. They believe in dogma. And this is silly, because REAL science is contradiction of dogmatism.

In my opinion there is no real conflict between theories of Creation and Evolution.
Maybe god created us using evolution? Why not? Even if he did so - he is still creator, right?

Theory of Evolution shall remain where it belongs - in the realm of Science.
Not on the banners of some religious movement that use it as a weapon against Christianity.

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Jun 9, 11, 05:54 #27

z_darius:

apples don't fly up from the trees.

I could temporarily change that by throwing an apple up a tree. It's temporary and artificial but it proves the exception.

z_darius:

theories are not unproven laws.

Nor are they necessarily proven ones.

z_darius:

ZIMMY:
I find it difficult to fit human evolution into this 65 million year span. In short, I don't believe that 65 million years is enough time for us to develop from (being) rats to Homo sapiens. A mere 65 million years just doesn't cut it.

And that is a great example of a "theory" in not a scientific sense.

Heh,heh,heh, no, only in a logical sense.

z_darius:

The example also contains a fundamental error in argumentation

Pray tell doctor.

z_darius:

Just because something may seem unbelievable, or difficult to accept/understand carries no weight.

Rightly or wrongly it carries the weight of probability. For example, it is probable that I can cross the street more safely with a green light than against a red light. While that's not always true it does carry weight with the people crossing the street.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 06:04 #28
ZIMMY: I could temporarily change that by throwing an apple up a tree. It's temporary and artificial but it proves the exception. That would only prove that apples could be thrown up in the air, not that they wouldn't fall. ZIMMY: Rightly or wrongly it carries the weight of probability. So what is the exact weight of that probability? Is it 0 (zero)?

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Jun 9, 11, 06:18 #29

enkidu:

I agree - in Science everything is just a "theory". And every theory can be overthrown by the new evidence. That is a beauty of science.
But Darwinists are not scientists. They are believers. They believe in dogma. And this is silly, because REAL science is contradiction of dogmatism.

Wrong again.
There is a difference between what a law is and what a theory is. Neither is a stage of the other and in some scientific research laws will simply not apply and only theories will.
In short, laws predict, theories explain,and thus only physics has laws. All others use theories.

Oh, and I am not writing about "darwinists". I am writing about the theory of evolution Darwin is credited with, even though he was far from being the first to come up with the idea.

enkidu:

Here here: Newton's laws of motion :)

Funny you pointed to those.
Newton's Laws of Motion, while not really proved wrong, were shown to be not quite right either. For example in relativity or on the very small scale they don't hold. So much for "laws", huh?

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Edited by: George8600 Jun 9, 11, 08:32 #30

Who gives a sh!t, this is clearly rambling onto being yet another religious debate...one of many which for some odd reason has taken up a quarter of the internet these past few years... Truth is most of you and most of your "scientific" atheists or possibly religious folk who claim it haven't sat their asses down to read all of Darwin's 4 books front to back...nor do they work their asses off at an internationally ranked school in the sciences as I do...yet they think making some clever jokes and quoting some populist scientists that they instantly boost their IQ...while I doubt that happening to me and I'm working my summer off doing advanced physical chemistry, and differential calculus equations.... I respect people's beliefs or lack there of...but get real...most of these debates including this one don't stem from most of you giving a sh!t about science...but from fearing death, an eternal afterlife or oblivion, an escape from familial indoctrination, or the search for a higher meaning than this one which is at the philosophical core of all our minds; unless maybe you're ridiculously rich or famous and couldn't ask for more in life. Get over it, you'll never know the ending truth...time will tell. Science is probably the vastest subject there is...to insist you can explain it in commoner words or claim absolute knowledge in even a small area of it without a scientific profession/degree is ludicrous.

With that being said this whole internet age is famous for letting unimportant people vent out their unimportant bullsh!t thinking that it is important and by adding mere labels to it, it makes them more intelligent and more important than other people's unimportant bullsh!t. That seems to be the swaying of a lot of the religious arguments I've seen on the net...there's prolly a 50/50 chance this thread will end up with people judging one an other with absolutist statements and generalizations that undermine their morals or intelligence, all so that the accuser can believe they're a unique one-of-a-kind snowflake when science actually insists you're but a mere invisible spec on the universes' sh!t. Sorry...I forgot evolution/science is popular these days among liberals who want to believe in value, equality, rights and all the utopian goodies in a world with no resources or realities to make it happen... oh brother @_@ #mini-rant #don't be offended, I speak mostly of others and no particular users on this forum.

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