Is/was Polish society patriarchal or matriarchal?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,835 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Dec 26, 10, 18:57 #1
What is your view on the question as to whether Polish society was or is essentially patriarchal or matriarchal? Why do you think so? What are the benefits and disadvantages? Do you view your own family and/or that of your parents' generation that way?

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Dec 26, 10, 19:05 #2
Christianity is a patriarchal system,just like all the other world religions. So Poland is patriarchal.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,835 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Dec 26, 10, 19:12 #3
Nominally yes, but efffectively?

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂	Dec 26, 10, 19:29 #4
Polonius3: Nominally yes, but efffectively? Whats the social structure you are talking about? Homes? ... Country? ... Community? ... what?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,835 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Dec 26, 10, 21:26 #5
The majority of today's Polish families.

trener zolwiaThreads: 5 Posts: 2,786 Joined: Jun 8, 10 ♂	Dec 26, 10, 21:27 #6
Polonius3: What is your view You're writing a book, aren't you?

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂	Dec 26, 10, 21:31 #7
Polonius3: The majority of today's Polish families. Depends ... mothers are increasingly taking the front seats. But in the traditional families its the father who leads. But then ... family structures in Poland is not doing well. Western influences.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,835 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Dec 26, 10, 21:42 #8
I might do if I thought it would sell, but sad to say we live in an increasingly anti-book era.

♂

Dec 26, 10, 21:50 #9

I've just noticed that you often ask questions here that seem they could be more for research than simply personal interest in PF/ Polish opinions.

If you do have a book in you, I say get writing. One shouldn't let the market dictate what they do, otherwise nothing would ever get done. The market is fickle and cannot be predicted with any certainty. And with the proliferation of ebooks and ebook readers nowadays, you just might find the book writing market comes roaring back.

♀

Dec 26, 10, 22:38 #10

I stand for patriarchal society. However men feel a bit disorientated being in a company of women who are able to do plenty "male" duties. I think many of them miss traditional model of family where they play leading roles. Still many of them do I hope. I guess we will be slowly coming back to times where men behaved like men and women like... women.
:)
Benefits?
Both men and women will feel better with their natural calling.
Disadvantages?
Let's say, a matter of ambition. Some women feel the best when they are equal to men with for example, technical or driving skills. But do they loose a little part of feminity then? I think they do...
Well, I don't catch why so many women wear trousers and behave like a men.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,959 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Dec 26, 10, 22:40 #11
I have noticed that slavic women want to appear feminine.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,228 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Dec 27, 10, 00:05 #12
The Polish families Ive known have been much the same as most families ive known around the world,ie,the man THINKS he's in charge ,the woman KNOWS she's in charge.

♂

Dec 27, 10, 00:48 #13

noreenb:

I stand for patriarchal society. However men feel a bit disorientated being in a company of women who are able to do plenty "male" duties. I think many of them miss traditional model of family where they play leading roles. Still many of them do I hope. I guess we will be slowly coming back to times where men behaved like men and women like... women.
:)
Benefits?
Both men and women will feel better with their natural calling.
Disadvantages?
Let's say, a matter of ambition. Some women feel the best when they are equal to men with for example, technical or driving skills. But do they loose a little part of feminity then? I think they do...
Well, I don't catch why so many women wear trousers and behave like a men.

Very astute observations... for many countries. I agree.
This should make the book. ;)

♀

Dec 27, 10, 16:44 #14

Trener zolwia
This should make the book. ;)

:) Oh, really?
No, this is just a very short example of one of plenty other ideas for advertisement or new Polonius3 book.
;)
Well, seriously, the topic is so wide... that finding a good answer is... a bit challenging.
Many women feel bad being in a role of a man in family. They aren't often masters at technical skills, driving a car is for them an extreme feat. I envy women who in todays world are good engineers or drivers. I think men should be good at things which making or doing is easy for them. But I'm rather a traditionalist. I don't know, maybe girls find exciting being race drivers or plumbers.
Women don't become as aggressive, when something goes wrong, as men, they are better at psychology, calming down emotions and know better people's souls. Men are better at logical thinking. It's so obvious...
I think these roles should be shared 50/50. Everybody have some talents, when a woman is better at organisational skills, is naturally stronger, she can become a "head" of home. But, won't men feel strange when he will have to listen to his wife?
I think that the head of the family becomes a person who has just more energy and who wants to be a leader in everyday family life.
:)

ShawnHThreads: 9 Posts: 3,056 Joined: Jul 2, 09 ♂	Dec 27, 10, 16:50 #15
noreenb: But, won't men feel strange when he will have to listen to his wife? A learned and necessary skill, if he know's what's good for him.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,228 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Dec 27, 10, 16:56 #16
noreenb: driving a car is for them an extreme feat oh lord,what century is this???

noreenbThreads: 4 Posts: 1,082 Joined: Apr 22, 09 ♀	Dec 27, 10, 17:44 #17
oh lord,what century is this??? Oh, Gosh? Are men are bad at memorising centuries?

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂	Dec 27, 10, 17:55 #18
noreenb: Are men are bad at memorising centuries? One man is not all men =) ... women seem not to realize this :)

noreenbThreads: 4 Posts: 1,082 Joined: Apr 22, 09 ♀	Dec 27, 10, 18:03 #19
A good point, Lodź the Boat. Bravo! You are very perceptive. Usually men aren't as perceptive as you were. ;) Or maybe one in a thousand. :)

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂	Dec 27, 10, 18:09 #20
=D thanks noreenb =) ...

noreenbThreads: 4 Posts: 1,082 Joined: Apr 22, 09 ♀	Edited by: noreenb Dec 27, 10, 18:41 #21
Why not to be very nice today? One on ten? ;D

♂

Dec 27, 10, 18:54 #22

Historically Polish males were often off to war or fomenting insurrrections, thrown into prisons or sent to Siberia, where members of the 'weaker' (?) sex had to hitch themselves up to a plough and keep the family togteher. Nowadays, men can lose jobs leaving the woman as the sole breadwinner. This plus the constant feminist agitation in ther news and entertainment media has undermiend traditional roles to a considirable extent. Morever, men are more inclined towards irresponsibile libation and infideltiy with all the problems that can entail for the family...

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂	Dec 27, 10, 18:58 #23
Polonius3: Polonius3 Family situations are not too good generally in Poland as I mentioned. Not working, many. Eventually the Children become the women's responsibility. Sometimes women lack the wish to go for a proper family themselves.... Western Influences I call it. But alas ... families are increasingly uncommon in our land.

♀

Edited by: noreenb Dec 27, 10, 19:13 #24

Lodź the Boat
Sometimes women lack the wish to go for a proper family themselves....Western Influences I call it.

Yes, of course, many women in Poland think today about own families at the age of 30. It's so common these days. Before it? Studies, then a year or two of working abroad, then coming back, new studies, better job, own car, gorgeous flat and maybe, maybe, a family at the age of 30 or 31...

♂

Dec 27, 10, 19:33 #25

noreenb:

Many women feel bad being in a role of a man in family. They aren't often masters at technical skills, driving a car is for them an extreme feat. I envy women who in todays world are good engineers or drivers. I think men should be good at things which making or doing is easy for them. But I'm rather a traditionalist. I don't know, maybe girls find exciting being race drivers or plumbers.
Women don't become as aggressive, when something goes wrong, as men, they are better at psychology, calming down emotions and know better people's souls. Men are better at logical thinking. It's so obvious...
I think these roles should be shared 50/50. Everybody have some talents, when a woman is better at organisational skills, is naturally stronger, she can become a "head" of home. But, won't men feel strange when he will have to listen to his wife?
I think that the head of the family becomes a person who has just more energy and who wants to be a leader in everyday family life

More excellent observations! I agree with the traditional model of gender assigned roles. Being in a marriage is like being on a team where every player should use the strengths they bring.

But again with the girls driving... You have a little difficulty operating a car NB? :)

Lodz_The_Boat:

Sometimes women lack the wish to go for a proper family themselves....

Western Influences I call it

Yep. And nothing to celebrate.

♀

Edited by: noreenb Dec 27, 10, 20:26 #26

Trener zolwia
But again with the girls driving... You have a little difficulty operating a car NB? :)

I have to say I've been thinking you're a female. What an intuition! a very unmale ;) trait. I'm toying with idea to make a driving licence, but somebody told me I would be a bad driver, because I think too much. But, that men was my ex who didn't use to think enough.
:)

Being in a marriage is like being on a team where every player should use the strengths they bring.

Agree. Making a good team is both a challenge as well as hard work, but results may be excellent for each side.

♂

Dec 27, 10, 20:35 #27

Marriages are the seed of relationships ... only through a marriage do relationships of all form come out ...

Our problem nowadays in Poland is the failing institution of marriage. My own opinion would be due to the tendency of consummating couples before their marital bond. I am not a religious person who is strict and all ... but I think somethings had better remained intact.

Another thing would be the the tendency of men to shy away from their responsibility of having children. I dislike that. This ofcourse might be the reason why some Polish women prefer Eastern men (as this forum usually have so many stormy debates) as they seem to be more interested to take such responsibilities. Polish men also take the responsibilities, but unfortunately we are influenced too much from the western ways, and we have a growing drinking problem.

Economy is not an excuse, although many try to give it. I dont think it is. My father and mother have been together - the best of pairs ... and so have been my uncles and so have been my grand-parents ... and most of them had harsh financial times. Their marriage only increased in strength through hard times. Isnt that what marriages are all about.

Equality is good, but uniformity is not. The feminists have taken it too far, and the Males have forgotten their role which they need to focus while respecting their wife ... which doesnt have to be through oppression, but love and a proper understanding of each others roles.

Our society is supposed to be patriarchal ... but now its a mess (I am simply sorry to admit).

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,959 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Dec 27, 10, 22:24 #28
Lodz_The_Boat: My own opinion would be due to the tendency of consummating couples before their marital bond. I am guilty of consummation.

♂

Dec 27, 10, 23:28 #29

Lodz_The_Boat:

Equality is good, but uniformity is not. The feminists have taken it too far, and the Males have forgotten their role

Yep.

noreenb:

I'm toying with idea to make a driving licence, but somebody told me I would be a bad driver, because I think too much. But, that men was my ex who didn't use to think enough.

Don't listen to him. The thinking peeps are the better drivers. What we need are more drivers that think!

noreenb:

I have to say I've been thinking you're a female. What an intuition! a very unmale ;) trait.

Hey! >:

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 27, 10, 23:31 #30
Does it have to be one at the expense of the other? It is expensive to have children and many don't. That's why the thread title often has no answer.

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