Soviet war monuments in Poland/Estonia

Russia need to be changed. That is priority on the list of Slavic Otpor.


Unfortunately, those are very well known facts.

Things will be changed.

EU support spread of Islam on Balkan, EU colaborate with Al Qaeda on Balkan, EU colaborate with mujaheedines on Balkan, EU supoported creation of Greater Croatia, EU supporting creation of Greater Albania, ...and imagine selfish Russian elite even helped them in some moments and on the other side, Pan-Slavic wing of Russian elite opposed to this situation in some other moments.

Problem is that you never can`t be sure who prevail in Russia in some moment and that way you can`t count on Russians. For that, things should be changed inside of Russia so that Pan-Slavic/pro-Russian democratic elite take control over Russia for good.


I see things different then you daffy, from obvious reasons. My expiriance is different.

To be honest i really don't care about this monuments. Some of them are acutally cool. But when i am seeing reactions of russian side on events in estonia...they are really awful. This is Estonia not Russia, and it would be cool to destroy some of that soviet monumets in Poland just to show solidarity with Estonia.

The Russian youth group NASHI is protesting in Estonia on behalf of Putin. This group of 20 somethings has been accused of being paid protestors. It seems strange to me that a bunch of university age kids wouldn't rather be with friends, (or playing sports or something) rather than demonstrating whenever someone goes against Putin.
Bizzarre and creepy....

"The Russian youth group NASHI is protesting in Estonia on behalf of Putin. This group of 20 somethings has been accused of being paid protestors. It seems strange to me that a bunch of university age kids wouldn't rather be with friends, (or playing sports or something) rather than demonstrating whenever someone goes against Putin.
Bizzarre and creepy...."

Yeah you r tottaly right bout that. Of course it is important to remember about history of your nation, but this kind of fanatizm is really bad.

Crow its all very complex for those of us not of E European origin to get a real picture of what has happened......not sure how true all of the above is....supporting is the wrong word at times...perhaps has facilitated/allowed certain things to happen.......ie inadvertently....through stupidity/EU laws of equality etc.....

As for Putin and Chechnya...........a whole other story........S Times quoted 10000 children fatalites during that war......

Russian make a big problem about removing monuments of soviet soldiers in Tallin.First of all Estonia as well as many more of the countries including Poland wasn`t freed by the Red Army.It was just another bloody occupant .Nazizm killed 30 milion people but comunism killed 100 milion people all over the world.and is still doing it (China,North Korea etc.) Do you think that when Red Army came to Poland in 1939 and 1944 and started to kill polish patriots,killing polish officers in Katyn ,sending poles to die in Syberia or Kazachstan.raping polish women,burning polish cities and taking equipment from polish factories sounds like bringing freedom to Poland by a friendly country?Should we keep the monuments that memorize russian occupation , war crimes and economical degradation we suffered from russian occupants? Why Russians are so obsesed because of removal of that monument in Tallin?Because head of the Russian state is a KGB officer whose father took part in Warsaw Insurrection in August 1944.He was helping German army to kill Poles .I saw the pictures of his father takien in Warsaw during that time.There was an article about it in polish weekly magazine Angora few years ago.Beside as a KGB man Putin has such a mentality like Hitler or Stalin and russian government by defending those monuments is showing that they do agree with russian politics of Stalin.That means thay do still think it was ok. to occupy another country and war crimes should be memorized by monuments so those other nations should remember ther true nature of Putin and russians present government? Few years ago Russia made a new national holiday memorizing removing polish army in 1600`s from Kremlin.Recently I read an article about that and polish army was removing its soldiers from kremlin.When main forces of the polish army left russian murdered only the officers that as planned to be leaving the next day. This holliday isn`t the friendly act towards Poland but nobody reacted the way that russians reacted in Estonia.The recent politics in recent times should be a warning for everybody.The russian government is anpredictable and did give us many sign that it has aggressive nature.They commit war crimes in Chechenya.Who might be the next?

I already said that I don`t support Putin`s methods but, if we want to be honest methods of EU aren`t batter. Fundaments of EU are in ancient Greace and Rome and fundaments of those societies were in slavery of Slavs.

Or, take USA for example. Fundaments of USA are in genocide of whole one race, that is in genocide of native American Indians who are even today considered as sub-people.

I am against double standards. Let`s speak honestly and let we make this world batter.

EU's actions have been ones of support, its russia's behaviour here that has been like a bully!

But, daffy looks pretty logic to me that Russian pressure on Estonia could represent just bait- you know Putin`s methods (no matter what we think about them or, we can even speak about USA/EU/NATO terrifying methods).

Maybe, Russia want to send message that sovereignty represent universal principle and that Serbia also has right to survive as sovereign country or that Russia has right on sovereignty, etc. Hire, and Estonia and Serbia represent just puppets in game of great powers. It`s not form of support which Serbs expect but, what can we do.

Same way how Estonia getting support from some countries, I expect to see that Serbia get support for her sovereignty. What does it matter who are in EU/NATO. Freedom, independence and sovereignty are universal principles. If EU/NATO blackmail Serbia, in order to force Serbia to become member of those organizations just because Serbs hold strategic region of Western Balkan (important to finally push Russian presents from warm sees), I say- `to hell with EU/NATO, they are monsters if they can’t understand that we can’t support them in their drang nach osten. We can’t, we are responsible last bearers of honest Sarmatian name.`

And, let all Catholic and Protestans Serbs who were scattered already, from Baltik to Balkan, know that they won’t feel shame because of us- Balkan Orthodox Serbs. It is nice to live and died as Serbs and Slavs.

Long live sovereignty!

If EU/NATO/USA wants to restore respect on them they need to return what they taken from Serbs, on one great international conference. That include- restoration of Serb Krajina under Croatian occupation, freedom for Serb Republic in Bosnia which is forced to exist in society with mujaheedines who coming to settle from Arabia, and Kosovo-Metohija must stay integral part of Serbia.

And, of course, we would demand chance for independence of Lusatia. Let people decide on plebiscite about their own future because Lusatian Serbs are native population on their own ground.

Otherwise, Slavic OTPOR is inevitable. Same broom which sweeped Milosevic would sweept those who humiliates Slavs.

Again Crow your statements see have a reversed sense of what is happening. Let you and i leave it for this topic regarding Serbia as its about PL/ES which you have already agreed has had every right to do what it did with the monuments.

any further serbia talk - you know by now where we are to go :)

Yes, we agree I know. We want to see different methods for people of this world.

We need universal principles, not double standards. So that Christmas can be real Christmas.


Thanks daffy man- son of Irish tree. Regards from Crow of Scordiscs.

Russian is russian. Soviet is another thing. Out monuments from Poland.

I read in the newspaper today that the Polish president plans on removing all public statues & signs reminding of Soviets & Nazis in the coming year. Said Poles can do whatever they want & they don't want Russia to intervene. On the same day that Putin unleashes against Estonia for removing them & to the USA.

First, I love this statues and I think they are fascinating. For me as a tourist, they really brighten up a holiday.

Second, I agreed with grzegorsz's response earlier.

Third, Crow, The EU is a far more powerful union than a slavic alliance ever could be, militarily, economically, whatever. Besides a slavic alliance would be a mere subset.

Fourth, we had all of these things in Ireland years ago and we found ways around them.
For example, in Poland there was the holocaust, in Ireland there was the Famine (which resulted in a proportionally larger percentage of our death and migration of our population)
We also learned how to topple imperial statues without leaving much room for discussion

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson%27s_Pillar

Amen!!



I can't see a Slavic Union emerging sometime near Crow, sorry. It would definitely be great though.

Lithuania,Latvia and Estonia this are Balts
Poland,Slovakia,Czech,Serbia,Slovenia,Croatia,Bosna,Bulgaria,Ukraina,B elearus,Moldova,Russia are Slavs

Back to the topic :

Estonia is independent country and thay can do whatever thay won't, but thay shoud give respect to death people and to the filings of 1/3 of their population. In my opinion removing of that monument wasn't smomethink wrong

coud you imagine that at the main plac of Warsaw will be monument of Stalin or Hitler ??
the same in Paris for example SS-Soldier monument.

History is always written by the winners, and in that situation Estland is winner because thay resign after long time and thay can do what thay want with ocupant mouuments.

due to SS-Estland Batalion thay want fight for their survive and thay can by alians only of German because thay have no other choice.

Maybe not to the and but many russian people live thre isn't true ??

We have a saying (in Russia), that Russia has no friend exept army, fleet and Serbs!


No it's not true. They live is Transistria, but historicaly it is not Moldavia!

ok you know better. and i know som russian people thay are ok , you always have some bad govermant... thats all

and during communism time many russian also die at siberia example when thay build transiberian railly.... true??

Could I say something as an (ex-oppresor) Russian? ;-)))

Unfortunately for EU, the bigger it become the more friable his body and more stretched out its communications! One day somebody (not Russia) will kick it and it will be destroyed :-(((
You think that old Europe burns with the desire to fight for it's East? Remember "The Strange War" on the eve of WWII!

No no, we just only whant Putin on all 80%!!!! Putin is an exelent choise for us! And I am really sorrow that this is only 8 years!!! ;-)))

Do you really know his nature? Do you communicate with him personally? Or its only a unfounded private opinion ?


Hemmm.... but i thought that during Nazi ocupation the polish population decreased whereas during Soviet, ok, ocupation too, it shooted up and Poland was formally independent state with all attributes including place in UN, discrepancy?!!!

Grzegorz, I agree with you 100%! Great post. I share the same sentiments with you on this topic and you are right on everything. Estonia is a sovereign nation, let them do what they please. Let us all be free from the horrible Russian influence.

Russia needs to be further broken down by the self-determination of even more nations to weaken the Russian core and surround Moscow by even more nations. These nations will start to resent Russia if Russia pushes them too, eventually leading to a mass of nations against Russia which will put a lot of political pressure on them to change policy.

Hi could you let me know the names of any war memorials in eastern Europe so I can research them?
Im working on the design for one in Ireland at the minute and all inspiration is welcome!
Thanks

Everyone should go ahead and get rid of all monuments that boast of Soviet occupation. Let Russia have a hissy fit. They'll get over it......eventually.

Hah, Russians would be OK... and, they would be hire in time of our need. I’m sure it’s just that pressure from false West on them and, that transition. They are a little nervous these days.

Relax sisters and brothers!

What we need right now is one good party with gallons of slivovica and orange juice, eventually.


Girl of White Garden, give me that drink that you promised to me and sing, sing for me and let’s dance…

Calm Down...

It`s the poetry, man

A, da. Yes, yes...I going

Id be more inclined to accept the local peopls wishes. To them it may be a sign of harder times, oppression etc and ultimatley their decision. not the EU's or Russia's.

Yeah Daff, I wuz bein' facetious! Sometimes the Russian govt's attitude just burns me, that's all! :)

i got it, i was agreeing with you. Estonia is independant. Can do what it wished to the monuments

May 8, 2007
This from poland.pl/news/article,Polish_monuments_are_a_Polish_matter_says_PM,id ,274088.htm

'No one has the right to interfere in Poland's decisions how to name streets and what monuments can be seen in the cities', Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski has said.
This is an internal affair of any country, the premier observed as Moscow voiced its criticism and concern over plans to remove Soviet-era monuments from Poland's landscape.

The article says there are about 2K communist era monuments in Poland. (Wow, that will be a big job to remove all those. What to do with them? Sell them on Ebay! Give money to charity. I think Russia can buy them back. Or trade for fuel. I'm being silly, here, ok?)

And I am wondering, what about all those old checkpoint markers you see on maps of Poland. Why are they still there? Would that not be an eye sore?