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Polish MMA - What do you think?

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posts: 213

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 1, 08, 14:41 #41
I did, he's pretty good. Very light and agile. He could give some top guys a good run for their money

noimmigration	Jan 1, 08, 15:15 #42
do you like mauy thai, grappling etc. seanus ?

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Foreigner4 Jan 1, 08, 15:17 #43
Seanus wrote: ome of the best MMA guys are from Holland (Aerts, Hoost, Yvel, Schilt etc). Not mma guys at all, the only exception being the incredibly unsuccesful in mma schilt. Let's not confuse apples and oranges here. Now Alistair Overeem, there's a Dutch cat that, if he could put it together consistently could really be a blue chip, but he's a bit of a front runner and when he's down he's usually out. ps. i watched last ufc online and was anyone else amazed at how easily gsp handled hughes? And also did anyone else notice vandy looked like he was fighting underwater i.e. slow? and lastly, joe rogan may be funny but unbiased he is not.

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 1, 08, 15:25 #44
Yvel was put forward for a fight with Fedor. In all honesty, it'd've taken a lucky kick for Yvel to drop him but I think Fedor wouldn't've pushed him over so easily. K1 still attracts different types of fighters so it is MMA. Poles prefer boxing but there are still a number of MMA fighters here who just need funding to make progress.

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 1, 08, 15:36 #45
ahhh you're right, my bad Yvel definitely was mma, I fully acknowledge that (sorry that was dumb of me). But i thought he couldn't fight, i.e. isn't he suspended for all the uh, "liberties" he's taking with the rules? But against Fedor? Nigga please, Yvel ain't got nothin for Fedor that doesn't look like like and smell like luck and goes "bang" like a gun, cause other than that Fedor outclasses him in the big picture. Hey i'm just a stone's throw away in Tychy, I guess i'm still associated with Tychy Bastion. How long you been trainin in Gli-land?

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 1, 08, 15:42 #46
He punched a ref once which is a big no-no. I think he got a huge rap on the knuckles for that. I meant that Fedor would've been a little stretched if Yvel was on his game. Fedor for sure is the better fighter. Have u seen him doing Sambo? Fearsome!! I've been in Gliwice for over 3 years now, I teach at Profi-Lingua and through Britam

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 1, 08, 15:55 #47
hmmmm, funny we haven't met before then. yeah i've seen his sambo stuff, but in to keep it in perspective, that'd be like a european judoka against an american one; the belts may both be black but the experience is just night and day, same thing with him and most of the guys he faces. Yeah he loves the sport but that doesn't mean it's a deep talent pool in there (comparatively speaking that is). Gli-land, hmm, I went to a tourney there about 3 years ago (one of the last ones i did) i was always under the impression i was the only foreigner competing in those things here. Sorry, did you start training in Gli-land or did you do anything back home before?

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 1, 08, 15:59 #48
Training as a teacher u mean? I don't do MMA myself, well, I did judo a long time ago but I like watching it

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 1, 08, 16:07 #49
oh, well i know there's a bjj club in gli, teaching evenings cuts out a lot unless you can get morning training partners. I couldn't stay here if i didn't have that outlet. I work for prof-it too, it sucks that there's no established networking or inhouse training/workshops or we'd have crossed paths 3 years ago. Hey, next time you hear of some gala, gimme a shout and we can check it out.

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 1, 08, 16:28 #50
Sure thing, they're often in Bytom. Profit hehehe. I started at Callan but changed as I wanted to get back to classical teaching. What's ur real name?

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 1, 08, 16:33 #51
ask zbygniew and martyna who i am? hehe, you did work for those two right? i could be wrong but i was under the impression they were the owners of callan in gliwice. As far as i know he's got some mafia connections though, so that would have been another reason to split from that place. Bytom, haha, that was the last time Ian (foreigner4) did a tourney (full contact bjj tourney) ah good times, they were.

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 1, 08, 16:43 #52
Yeah, I worked for them and they are the owners. When did Ian leave Callan?

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 2, 08, 02:08 #53
i think he left in 2003 for greener pastures however he was only associated with those two in tychy. Martyna is a great lady and zbyg is alright (just a lil on the shady side, know what i mean?). Hey when do you go back to work? I can't remember if the first official day is thursday or friday (that's so goofy).

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 2, 08, 07:32 #54
Back to work tomorrow. I guess u knew Owen, Cathy, Alisa, Magnus, Rob, Adam and Jeff? Zbig, shady? Never, LOL

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 5, 08, 13:46 #55
I can't believe i have been sitting on the best website in the world and haven't name dropped on here: mma.tv it's gone through some name changes over the past 10 years or so but it's still the best site for mma imo. it's got a european section in the world forums if you want a way to get your mma news, then this is a pretty good link. Honestly though the otherground can be worth the price of admission alone. sometimes sublime sometimes bleh. you guys can be your own judges.

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 9, 08, 15:22 #56
Sb should approach the Polish govt for funding. It's quite popular in Russia as Putin is into it. Chuck Liddell beat Wanderlei Silva, the Axe Murderer has lost his touch, the Iceman kicked his ass. Bisping seems to be doing alright although I haven't checked his stats 4 a while. Gotta get some Poles in there, see how intelligently they fight

DtamiThreads: - Posts: 38 Joined: Oct 10, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 12, 08, 19:30 #57
Wanderlei Silva...had to go up in weight to fight Liddell...he went from 185 to 210... he lost his speed...if you saw the fight...his signature KICKS and KNEES were almost non existent....

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 13, 08, 11:41 #58
True enough, they were rendered ineffectual. Chuck has such a large reach, he kept Wanderlei at bay. Still, Wanderlei looked sluggish, much like Crocop in a couple of fights. Wanderlei has done well but maybe it's time to recharge the batteries, take a couple of months off and then finish off his career. He's getting on a bit

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 13, 08, 12:54 #59
he looked like he was fighting underwater it's strange that couture's camp didn't have a more effective influence on his gameplan (unlike forrest), which was unfortunately nonexistent. i got that feeling before the fight that it would be vand throwing looping haymakers and that's what we got. and Wanderlei isn't really all that old nor does he need to recharge the batteries, he's gotta evolve his gameplan though. with this current "clean" vandy i don't see him being able to triplicate his two dismantlings of jackson like he did in pride.

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 13, 08, 13:18 #60
Jackson really came on in leaps and bounds and is super confident, he'd take Wanderlei I reckon. Wanderlei needs the killer instinct put back into him. When Tyson lost it, he really lost it.

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 13, 08, 13:25 #61
wanderlei has it imo, he is the crypton to jackson's superman. i am not sure if jackson has even improved, i mean he managed to beat a guy he'd already beaten before to take the title, he just didn't have to contend with vandy as champ. i think vandy is just a bad match up for him in the ring. in the cage, things may work out differently though.

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 13, 08, 17:22 #62
Hard to say, much depends on how they feel on the day. Wandy didn't look so confident going into the fight against Chuck. I think it would be fair to say that they are equally as capable of being each other. Does Tito Ortiz still fight? He's a tough nut but crackable

aligator_sThreads: - Posts: 96 Joined: Jan 7, 08 Gender: Male	Jan 14, 08, 16:49 #63
i think that Rampage has improved beyond all recognition. he dominated Chuck and Chuck won a comfortable decision over Silva. in fact Rampage is the only Pride fighter to shine upon entering the UFC. Rua looked very bad against Griffen, Crocop has done nothing but lose fights since he entered the octagon. Personally I am getting rather tired with Dana White trying to turn the UFC into a WWF circus. I was alarmed when Zuffa bought Pride, hence the Pride fighters entering the UFC. Tito Ortiz last fought in July against Rashad Evans. He has not retired officially and now spends his time living the life of a celebrity MTV pop tart. Fair play to him really.

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 15, 08, 12:27 #64
Thanks for the update aligator_s. Jackson is focussed and he's got a mean ass punch. I still don't see any Polish fighters coming forward. This needs to happen.

DtamiThreads: - Posts: 38 Joined: Oct 10, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 15, 08, 22:56 #65
Jackson is with Josh Barnett in Bear Camp in Calif. last I heard.....Wanderlei's been working on his business lately, and needs to get hungry, again...

aligator_sThreads: - Posts: 96 Joined: Jan 7, 08 Gender: Male	Jan 16, 08, 03:22 #66
Hi Seanus, there are some good Polish fighters. Their techniques are very good. if you look at the UK there are not too many fighters who have been successful internationally. Michael Bisping has been very successful, as has Ian Freeman and Mark Weir but compare this to hundreds of North American, Japanese and Brazilian fighters. it is probably because American kids learn wrestling in school, Japanese kids learn some form of martial art and the Brazilian kids learn BJJ. in the UK and in Poland there does not seem to be that base of grappling knowledge learned from a young age. Having said that Polish judoka are fantastic. Lack of sponsorship makes it difficult for Polish fighters to become established on the world circuit

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 16, 08, 16:36 #67
Josh Barnett, now there's a fighter. He'd give Fedor a bit of a fight, though inevitably lose. He's actually a friend of Fedor. Fedor looks cold but he's a decent guy. U should watch Fedor sambo training, ferocious. I'm sure some guy behind the scenes here in Poland is just lurking in the shadows, ready to emerge. It'd be interesting to see a guy called Indy fight. He's a bouncer at a local club here in Gliwice. I watched him train young Poles do ju-jitsu, he's the local instructor here. He asked me to try and hit him but he's a master of blocking. He should step forward

oh_damn	Jan 22, 08, 08:24 #68
hey.. a little bit out of topic now.. but, maybe someone of you people know the names for positions and submissions in MMA/BJJ in polish ?? for example.. i know mount = dosiad, and butterfly guard = motylek... If you know more, please post =) thx!

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Foreigner4 Jan 22, 08, 08:51 #69
yeah i guess i know most of them (the names) when i hear them but i'm quite visual and experiential so you could even give me 10 different variations of judo throws with traditional japanese names and i just wouldn't be able to remember the names. However i would have the throws down and the set ups to boot. It did suck though when i'd go to tournies and i'd hear the instructions the other guy's corner would be giving him, it could've been used to my advantage i suppose (but i guess i won more often than not so whatever) aligator_s wrote: he dominated Chuck and Chuck won a comfortable decision over Silva. what you smokin willis? he got owned and reowned by silva in brutal fashion, put down the pipe. as for tito seanus: his striking doesn't set up his clinch and pummel game. he's trying to be an outside striker but his dominant performances have been from fighting in close. Barnett? could be the guy to beat Fedor, we'll see if Randy and Fedor fight in October. Polish mma= HUUUUUUGE Talent pool, I mean ridiculously HUGE. Poznan, Szczescin, Warszawa, Krakow and Sląsk are the places in Poland to be as far as having kicka$$ training partners. Somebody just needs to be the savvy promoter who can deal with all the petty b.s. that comes part and parcell with Polish sport to really give Poles a steady league to compete in, one that will be reliable enough to make training worth their while (payolla wise). That is all.

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 22, 08, 09:08 #70
Do u know Łukasz Jurkowski? He seems like a decent prospect but Taekwondo fighters aren't the best. Yilmaz was beaten by Masato. Muay Thai beats Taekwondo on this occasion.

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 22, 08, 09:13 #71
tkd? while i refrain from ridicule, if he doesn't have a solid ground game or sprawl ability i gotta question his future in the game. just sayin y'know? but anyway, never heard of him, i'll ask a few guys about him tonight.

SeanusThreads: 17 Posts: 17983 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 22, 08, 19:18 #72
I don't see why a Polish fighter can't learn from Fedor for example. BTW Ian, did u c Fedor Vs Hong Man Choi? Fedor will armbar him everytime. Hong Choi could hurt Fedor in a rematch but, for me, he's never gonna beat Fedor.

aligator_sThreads: - Posts: 96 Joined: Jan 7, 08 Gender: Male	Jan 23, 08, 13:51 #73
at the risk of being accused of smoking crack Rampage Jackson will beat Silva in the cage. this is in the unlikely event of Silva becoming a contender in the UFC. Page has improved his game out of all proportion. he did lose against Wandy twice in Pride but I believe he would beat Silva should they meet again Łukasz Jurkowski demonstrated a competent ground game in KSW. He is not the world's greatest grappler but he did not look uncomfortable on the ground. Strikers can learn to grapple. George St Pierre started life as a kyokushin karate fighter. He humiliated Matt Hughes and Matt Hughes is a phenomenal wrestler.

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 23, 08, 14:27 #74
aligator_s wrote: Page Don't call him that, it's dumb. you may be right about jackson but hey, an 0-2 record by way of hellacious beatdown doesn't really tip the scales in his favour. His last outing against Chuck was too short to make any assessment and his matches with Eastman and Lindland didn't really showcase his skills. I really think Wanderlei, Chuck and Jackson are a triangle of one guy being able to beat the next but not the one after. aligator_s wrote: Łukasz Jurkowski demonstrated a competent ground game in KSW. He is not the world's greatest grappler but he did not look uncomfortable on the ground. Strikers can learn to grapple. noone's saying they can't, but i'd like to know the pedigree of the guy he was fighting on the ground, i simply don't have an opinion on the guy's ground game but hey, I can look like a good striker against the right opponent-know what i'm sayin?

aligator_sThreads: - Posts: 96 Joined: Jan 7, 08 Gender: Male	Jan 24, 08, 03:01 #75
'Don't call him that, it's dumb' oh look, I have made a new friend! Perhaps you might want to view Mr Jurkowski's ground game, clips of his fights can be found on youtube.com KSW is a good event, the quality of the fighters is very good and they import some top Dutch fighters from 2hot2handle. it is not like some of the fights that go in Russia where you have a sambo instructor up against a bus driver - 'From Russia with Blood' springs to mind here. I do not know if you have seen those fights but they do tend to be a little one sided. what a boring world it would be if we all thought the same

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Foreigner4 Jan 24, 08, 05:52 #76
yeah i guess i over-reacted a bit, but seriously why have a cool nickname like Rampage if someone ends up clipping it and make him sound lower than a squire? Seriously I hate the whole "page" thing, it came from TUF newbs trying to put their stamp on mma and it's just simply "the ghey." Nothing against you, not saying you're dumb, you're probably a cool mother f***er. Anyway, i've watched a few of his fights and while initially he had his hands too low, it looks like he's started to correct that. His ringmanship is good in that he keeps out of the boxer's pocket and keeps to the outside. His strikes are technically sound, look very powerful (fight ending back kick) but they don't flow, he's either loading up too much or he seems to have trouble tracking his opponents. That is, he fires off a shot or two but then stops, regroups and stays outside again but then again maybe that's his strategy. The Rimbon fight is a good example of this, where he got a gift-boxed, hand-wrapped, home-town decision btw. His clinch looks very good and knees appear to be his best asset. He has thown a couple looping over hand lefts that really leave him exposed and if he's not using them to set up a shot then he should just leave them out of his game, a good counter striker will catch him on that. His sprawl is very good but his follow up defence is not. Holding the ropes multiple times in match really saved his ass from being slammed into a very crap position. He went for a guillotine as a defence against a so-so double leg takedown attempt (shot and very delayed forward drive)-not smart imo. If you can't sprawl with your guilotine to cinch it in then you're just begging to be rotated and slammed onto your side, again, his rope grab saved that from happening. A much better defence is to slip in underhooks and stand your opponent up to either shoot or throw off that or use strikes, in his case knees would probably finish things off in short order. And if you can only get one underhook, that's fine, push on the head to get his shoulders below his hips, then decide what to do from a very advanageous position. Nice triangle in the KSW 7 fight, it takes guts to go for that in a match, but it looked as though him getting it was due 50% to his efforts and 50% to his opponent not knowing how to either rotate out of it, stack him up, compact him and rotate out of it or posture up and break it. That being said, it wasn't a bad closed guard at all and a very nice triangle, but that being the only bit i really saw of him on the ground it's tough to say if i think he has a good ground game or not, i just haven't seen enough of it. i agree with you, he didn't look uncomfortable but was that because his opponent didn't make him uncomfortable or because he wouldn't let his opponent?

aligator_sThreads: - Posts: 96 Joined: Jan 7, 08 Gender: Male	Edited by: aligator_s Jan 24, 08, 09:39 #77
Foreigner4 wrote: Nothing against you, not saying you're dumb, you're probably a cool mother f***er. no really you are right. I am dumb. I usually try to hide it, but you have seen me as the fraud I really am. The truth hurts..... sniff I hope you are pleased with yourself.... sniff

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 24, 08, 12:09 #78
oh stop it now, i already feel bad enough as it is. berates self

aligator_sThreads: - Posts: 96 Joined: Jan 7, 08 Gender: Male	Jan 25, 08, 02:55 #79
all joking apart, your comments with regards to the Jurkowski fight clips are very well made. You clearly know your stuff. Back to Polish MMA for a moment, the good news is that the UFC (love it or hate it as an organisation but it still is the number one organisation) is starting to become much more European focussed. They had their first Swede fight in the last UFC held in Newcastle. They have signed up Goran Reljic (although Croatian he has fought Polish fighters) Strategically the UFC management realise that America is only one market. They would like MMA to take off in Mexico - hence the promotion of Huerto - an excellent fighter never the less. Bisping is the UK's poster boy for the UFC. In the last couple of years they have realised that there is money to be made in Europe. The UFC's new focus outside the US can only be seen as good news for Polish fighters. Coming back to the sponsorship/promotion comments we both made on previous posts with regards to your comment Łukasz Jurkowski dropping his hands, it is probably a bad habit picked up from TKD. the question is does he keep them dropped when under attack? Sugar Ray Leonard used to drop his hands a lot but his reflexes kept him out of trouble as did Chris Eubank. Having said that dropping your mitts is never wise. I believe that is why fighters like Chuck Liddell may be finished now. A contraversial statement I know however the reflexes are the first to go and once that happens you do not have anything to fall back on. Randy Couture can a drag you to the mat and either batter you or submit you. Dan Severn will just take you down and keylock you. Lightning fast reflexes are not needed. Hence Dan Severn can still fight at the age of 54

Foreigner4Threads: 10 Posts: 1151 Joined: Nov 18, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 25, 08, 05:48 #80
good point on dropping hands and your sugar ray leonard comparison is a good analogy, one which i admit i never considered. I think that's why jackson will always be able to capitalize on chuck, he's got the skills i.e., quickness and power, to take advantage of that. Wandy doesn't have that problem (that i can remember) and that is Jackson's opening from the outside, with wandy he seems to have to fight inside more. But Dan Severn? i respectfully disagree. his strength was always fighting people who couldn't stop a bullrush takedown- in takedown defence lightning reflexes are needed but they are technically, imo, of a different sort entirely than striking, unless of course striking is your takedown defence, see anderson silva vs. my beloved carlos newton (beloved in the most manly non sexual way possible lol). UFC in Poland? I see the day, but while i think having a reputable organization is paramount for these guys to be receiving reliable compensation for their hard work, i certainly wouldn't want a singular org. dominating the global market. It would be great if there was a premier fight league that allowed poles to train and fight in poland.

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