Who suffered more, victims of Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, or victims

It is a Polish forum and Polish soldiers are invoved in Americas wars in the middle east, so as szkotja2007 has pointed out before me it is very relevant!



Read szkotja's figures again celinski. They're very accurate! You point to the suffering of innocent people from violent regemes in the past. What about the suffering from violent regemes of today. And the regeme causing the most suffering by far in the world today is the American regeme with the help of both British and POLISH soldiers. So this is suffering which you strongly suport!

This is about history that is ignored. Once more why are we not able to speak about this part of history? If you want to post about Polish military in Iraq then this is fine. This is not that post, this post I really wanted to stay on task.

"Soviet" crimes toward "Polish people" and how "communism" has kept this part of history silent? Not just in "Poland" I might add but throughout the nation.

Big four like you wrote is not any legitimate body. How about squad of the first Central Committee of the Bolshevik party, Council of People's Commissars, The Central Executive Committee, The Extraordinary Commission of Moscow (Cheka)? Plenty of Jews here, find yourself.



By who?



Stop being such hot-headed. There are threads about American-Polish issues in this section of the forum. You can post your opinions there.

The Iraq war is five years old and your ignoring that.

1 million dead.
4 million refugees.

What do they teach in your schools about this? I can just imagin. We've liberated them from that tyrant Saddam and their life is just GREAT now!

Lesser

She bleats on an on about how Poland was hard done by, by the old Soviet Union which doesn't exist anymore. That has NOTHING to do with present day Russia or todays Russian people. She keeps pointing the finger at bad old Russia when she really needs to look in her own back yard!

It looks to me like this thread is about blood thirsty regemes that murder innocent people indiscriminatly so I'm on the right thread!

Was Stalin Jewish?

lessor I have 1,000 of articals on this subject, I have come to fully accept this fact. If you have information to dispute this I am interested. Thanks, Carol

Stalin Was A Jewish Moscow Coffee House Radical
http://judicial-inc.biz/Bush_Mossad11.htm



Why you feel you can speak for others is beyond me.
I hope this makes you feel good.

http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/StalinTheJew.htm
The Prop-Masters

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/communist.html

My dear, about 80% were Jews, including all the top leadership: Lenin was part-Jewish...please, if you have doubts, Google the phrase 'The Prop Masters'...and then you can go from there...online the Australian internet historian has a HUGE series of articles and documents detailing the Bolsheviks...Google 'Peter Myers'.

sure and, thanks to Our Lord for that fact

for Poles are able to create conditions for true and democratic disscusion. Poles, because they, in their great culture and history, expirienced Sarmatian `schlachta` which represent fundamental stone in evolution of democracy.

Soon Crow will post here and tell us that this thread is in fact about oppressed Slavs/Serbs. In such circumstances one cannot disagree with him!



I don't know Georgian, neither you I suppose. However even if he has some Jewish roots it doesn't automatically make a Jew out of him. I had a German grandma but I'm not a German.

Dunno about that...the Jews themselves say if you are born from a jewish mother than you are a Jew!

(I never could decided finally if being jewish is a religion thingie or an ethnic thingie...after all you can't convert to another ethnie but I've heard of jewish converts...but what is it then with this born-stuff?)

That's because its both! :)
A religion (that any one could convert to)
An ethinicity of people from one tribe who praticed Judaism

Stalin mother was Jewish? Anyway I use different criteria than the Jews and surname of Jewish origin would rather proof about "man line" Jewishness.



I have seen two American Jews seriously arguing about this issue, that was funny. I would say ethnic but not to this extend to count everybody with some Jewish roots a Jew.

Should it matter that "Tusk's" grandfather, "He is alluding to the fact that his grandfather was forced to serve in the Wehrmacht, Hitler's army, during World War II." Or should each person go on there own merit? I guess to me this is not about religion but about each person. Just as "Tusk" is not his grandfather.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/972224.html

From your source:



Erm...I never heard of THAT!
Frankly I don't believe it...in the Wehrmacht served till to the last day only Germans.
Some foreign people and Volksdeutsche served in the Waffen SS but surely no ex-concentration camp inmates!

*rolls eyes*

Somehow as Germany lost everybody somehow became "forced" or even a "resistance fighter" just to save their skins...

Tusk is Kashubian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashub



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Tusk



to be more precise he was draft into wermaht after two weeks deserted and joned Polish forces in the West

I repeat: ONLY Germans where drafted into the Wehrmacht! (And surely not a concentration camp inmate!)
You do the math!

But I can understand some rewriting of biographies. I doubt that ANY Pole with german heritage still living in Poland is openly stating the truth...all were "forced", right?
But in truth "polish patriots" and real "resistance fighters", ja?

(read about Kashubians in link I posted)

Bratwurst

I unddestand your mission here. You try to prove that Poles were bad people in WWII.

You forget one thing, Germans Invaded Poland Killed 6 mln Polish citizens (3 mln Jews and 3 mln of other religion) after the War Brits Russians and Americans decided to change our borders (traitors). Expel Poles form east and Germans form western part of Poland. Honestly after WWII there was no love between Germans and Poles ... all in all Germans wanted to be masters and lost the war ... you lost the war and had been punished by Brits Americans and Russians (who decided to change our borders) as we were punished by our "alies" and had to move (once again) because somebody decided to change our borders. You activity here, where you try to prove that Germans were vicitms is pathetic.

When you will once again invade Poland and kill 6 mln Polish citizens ...and finaly lost the war. Be sure Berlin will be Polish ...

Erm....no!

I just point out some easy facts!
Some of them might even be logical to you...when you don't want to hear them it's your choice!
I actually have compassion for people with german heritage in the after war Poland.
The few who were left and were not expelled grew up with nothing but hate, they had never a chance since all roots had to be cut, all memories had to be forgotten to just to survive. Surely one of their main survival tactics was to deny everything and to become more polish than the Poles (Polonization!).

But still the facts remain!
As a non-German his grandfather could have become a member of the Waffen-SS or the Ost-Truppen or even a HiWi for the Wehrmacht but never a member of the Wehrmacht itself....
And no concentrationcamp inmate would be drafted into the Wehrmacht either!
So...at what does that leave you?
It's not to hard, isn't it?



Did you forget your pills again? Why the hell should Germany invade??? :)



And then what? Expelling all Berliners?

I'm not sure about people from aboard but I have read somewhere that Polish minority in Germany was drafted to Wermacht. Maybe only German citizens?



He don't speak Kashubian and lost heavily presidential elections in this region. I think that his Kashubian roots are just a part of his PR.



Some could ask a such question before september 1939! :)

That is the point I try to make!
Into the Wehrmacht could only be drafted who had a big, fat "GERMAN" in his pass.
Lot's of Kowalskis (ex-Poles from the Ruhr for example) served in the Wehrmacht but they counted as Germans...
URL



I think Lukasz means the present or even the future....

I am not afraid :) I have given example.




I consider Poland loster in WWII the same as Germany. Germans started the war and in some moments were close to victory at the end were punished.

I started to think why we have been punished after WWII by our so called "alies" do you think Polish people wanted to move from Lwow or Wilno (beautiful towns). It seems that in present time we are in alinace with this pigs.

I think the best option would be part of EU and good friends of Russia but Russians have some mental problems towards Poland (we are not Russians).


As to situations with Poles with German citizenship, you version might be possible. I know that some ethinc Germans served in Polish army in 1939 because they were Polish citizens.

No...you didn't answer?
Why do you think would Germany invade again? What would we have to gain what we not already have?



I agree with that...

This is because the truth is coming to light as to what "Soviet's" did in eastern Poland. To be able to silence "Polish people" for 50 years and deny the full truth is a lesson in itself. Look at the heat placed on "Germany" for their actions and yet "Russia" demanded silence and recieved it for the most part.




I am still trying to find where this is written as I heard this was reported.

In a recent interview Tusk's mother said one of his grandmother's was a pure German.

It seems that in some issues we are allies. Germans and Poles don't want closer EU ties with Arabs like French want. (there is more issues) in some cases we have different view and we argue very sharp. I am not afraid that we are going to have German invasion.

The fact is that there is no love between our nations.



most of Russians have no idea about this facts. For them we were great slavic alies and now we behave like woman after divorce (and we should behave like Bielarus). As I know katyń movie has made great job in Russia and maybe there will be some progress. Most of Polish people dream about moving forward in realtions with some countries. The another story is Russian government ...

I feel that in the west the truth must be know reguardless if the Russians know. This was a major snow job on the part of "Stalin" and USA bought into it hook, line and sinker. Not only did they buy into it, when you review our history it is avoided and all resorces are used on "Holocaust" of "Jewish" and "Nazi" proportions.

As a Roman Catholic our stories are denied in US Holocaust musuems, yet now I read on "compensation" from "Stalin's" actions in eastern Poland and they refer to it as "Holocaust". Before this artical came out (last week) they denied our plight, now they will include the "others". I do not deny the "Holocaust", I deny the statistic's the lack of all victims.

"Others" are Poland's military and military reserve that fought and won independence for Poland. Yesterday's hero's treated as if they don't matter. Poland was attacked from all sides and history of the Polish victims has done a fantastic job making sure it's not talked about. Even with "Stalin" and "Hitlers" plan and Poland being betrayed look at what "Poland's" military was able to do and not just for there own but for the ones betraying them.

You remind me alot about Don Quichotte and his fight against Windmills.
You always ignore that without Stalin there would very probably never have been an allied victory over Nazi Germany! And those who are grateful for that and didn't have to suffer the consequences JUST DON'T GIVE A SH*T about you and the stories of the stalinistic victims.
The most you will ever get is an apologetic shrug...but most just don't want to hear it because it makes the whole "good against bad fight" heroism look at least dubious!

So, that leaves Eastern Europe alone contrary to Great Britain, France, the US and everything west from Germany...accept it!

in 1939 we were invaded by both Stalin and Hitler.

Katyń was in 1940 ... so before Soviet - German war (1941-1945) ...



your last post is nice example of Polish - German "love" :)

No...I didn't wrote from a german perspective. I wrote from a western ally perspective to show that there is a reason why Jews own the spotlight in the "suffering-victim business" and Poles (or other eastern europeans) do not, and never will...

Polish people don't want to be victims. We know our history, and we know that we were 4th force fighting against Nazi Germany in WWII and how we ended.

as to Germans I think it is pathetic that nation who killed 6 mln Polish citizens (3 mln ethnic Poles) come here and tell us if we have the right to remember our history or not.

I understand why some western historicans like to show Poland in bad light. All in all after they sold us and changed our borders (Poles wanted to stay in Lwow), they had to look for some facts to show that Poles were bad. "they expelled Germans" "two days after German invasion they killed 200! german civils" "some ethnic Poles with German citizneship were in wermaht" (Merkel is 25% ethnic Polish ... I consider her German, Sarkozy has Hungarian roots and I consider him French)


I don't live in the past When we have discussion I can participate because now we can speak.

Erm...Lukasz....read my posting again, would you???

I didn't say you shouldn't remember your victims...I tried to explain why polish/eastern european victims will never get the recognition as the Jews get from their western allies.
In short: Stalin was their ally and a main reason they won! It's that easy..

PS: When do you think Hollywood will spew out a movie about Stalins cruelties even during the war?
Never I say...and there you have it!