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About the absense of (in)definite articles


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learning
  Mar 24, 08, 15:14  #1

Since Polish has no definite or indefinite articles, how would you differentiate if both are said in a sentence?

Example: "He is not 'a' man but 'the' man"

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plk123
  Mar 24, 08, 15:19  #2

it's a foreign concept in PL language. read - non existant. you just have to use the proper words to get the proper meaing across.


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learning
  Mar 24, 08, 15:30  #3

Hmm... What if you are talking about like a person..

If there are many people named the same name, let's say Joe... but there is one really famous person called Joe. How would you say, that is not just a Joe but 'the Joe'?

More specific example:
Like if someone said, "Hey that looks like Elvis."
and his friend said back to him, "That is not just any Elvis, but THE Elvis."
(Elvis is dead BTW... just trying to make an example and sorry for the very American theme)

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SouthOfDaThames
Edited by: SouthOfDaThames  Mar 24, 08, 15:34  #4

plk123 wrote:
it's a foreign concept in PL language. read - non existant. you just have to use the proper words to get the proper meaing across.


as above; you would probably have to say something like "nie jest tylko panem, ale Wielkim Panem", I expect, to emphasise the importance of "the" in "the man".

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learning
  Mar 24, 08, 15:36  #5

I understood all the other words... but what is 'Wielkim'?

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plk123
  Mar 24, 08, 15:38  #6

large, huge


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SouthOfDaThames
  Mar 24, 08, 15:39  #7

learning wrote:

Like if someone said, "Hey that looks like Elvis."
and his friend said back to him, "That is not just any Elvis, but THE Elvis."


you could refer to the "ordinary" Elvis as zwykły, and "The" Elvis as wyj±tkowy, originalny, or unikalny.

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learning
Edited by: learning  Mar 24, 08, 15:40  #8

Hm.. I'm not sure if that is the correct meaning of what I was trying to say.

I'm trying to bring out the superiority/exception/uniqueness of one thing compared to many of the same other things.

Edit: ok the above post might've answered some of it. I was trying to see if there was a way to say it without using any specific adjectives

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SouthOfDaThames
Edited by: SouthOfDaThames  Mar 24, 08, 15:40  #9

plk123 wrote:
large, huge


yeah, like here in south London, we would say "that man's big, u get me?"... because they are THE man. ;)

it doesn't mean he's 6'10". :)

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learning
  Mar 24, 08, 15:42  #10

SouthOfDaThames wrote:
yeah, like here in south London, we would say "that man's big, u get me?"... because they are THE man. ;)


Ok that is definitely not what I meant. Lol

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gosiaczek
  Mar 24, 08, 15:42  #11

learning wrote:
"That is not just any Elvis, but THE Elvis."


To nie JAKI¶ Elvis, ale TEN Elvis.


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SouthOfDaThames
  Mar 24, 08, 15:43  #12

learning wrote:
I was trying to see if there was a way to say it without using any specific adjectives


but that brings you back to the first reply... we just don't speak like that in Polish :)

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learning
  Mar 24, 08, 15:46  #13

gosiaczek wrote:
To nie JAKI¶ Elvis, ale TEN Elvis.

What does that mean in literal terms?

SouthOfDaThames wrote:
learning wrote:
I was trying to see if there was a way to say it without using any specific adjectives


but that brings you back to the first reply... we just don't speak like that in Polish :)


When I meant specific, I meant some kind of a word that defines something among the same group as different or special..

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SouthOfDaThames
Edited by: SouthOfDaThames  Mar 24, 08, 15:53  #14

learning wrote:
When I meant specific, I meant some kind of a word that defines something among the same group as different or special..


but this can't always be done when translating between languages, like e.g. trying to translate phrases like nigdy nie ma into English; it doesn't quite work, grammatically, if you try and translate it exactly, you have to use different words to get your point across. though oddly enough, you can do it in London inner-city slang, e.g. I'm never on no long ting (I'm never doing/having anything dull, lol) but not in correct English as far as I can see, haha.

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plk123
  Mar 24, 08, 16:04  #15

jakis = some

ten = the one or this/that


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Davey
  Mar 24, 08, 21:35  #16

gosiaczek wrote:

To nie JAKI¶ Elvis, ale TEN Elvis.

This is not any Elvis, but THE Elvis

In Polish, sometimes for 'the', the Polish word for 'this' is used instead(ta/ten/to) but if not, sometimes there is no difference between 'a' or 'the'


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learning
  Mar 24, 08, 21:43  #17

Is this absence of a/the only in Polish or in other Slavic languages as well? I wonder how a/the couldn't be used!?

**in culture shock** not really..

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Davey
Edited by: Davey  Mar 24, 08, 21:44  #18

learning wrote:
Is this absence of a/the only in Polish or in other Slavic languages as well? I wonder how a/the couldn't be used!?

I don't think any Slavic languages use a/the. I guess it all the depends on the context of what is said.


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plk123
  Mar 24, 08, 22:22  #19

learning wrote:

Is this absence of a/the only in Polish or in other Slavic languages as well? I wonder how a/the couldn't be used!?

yeah, no such concept in Polish as well as other non latin based languages. it's almost completely unnecessary most Poles/Slaves would tell you. english is actually rather too wordy, in general. we don't use as many but boy do we love our runs of consonants. :D


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Michal
  Mar 25, 08, 03:25  #20

There is the Polish word jaki¶ that is used for this purpose in both spoken and written Polish.

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gosiaczek
  Mar 25, 08, 04:45  #21

learning wrote:
I wonder how a/the couldn't be used!?


believe me, Poles wonder how a/the can be used:)


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Michal
  Mar 25, 08, 06:25  #22

Yes, it is a big head ache for any nationality that is not used to these words.

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