Will this relationship between Ukraine and Poland ever be healed?

Please show me where? Thanks, Carol

Massacres of Poles commited by UPA were condemned by Ukrainian authorities. You can't except them to do that every week.

Maybe they should shoot some amount of Ukrainians every week to make their losses equal in the long term.

Yes I can.




When was that during the parade for them and a special day to celebrate what they did? Carol

Of, course

there is no alternative

Recently Yushchenko was interviewed by "Nasz Dziennik" (whole page). Really good entertaiment to read this, first three questions about UPA! ;)

Well first of all give back my familys propperties that were confiscated in lwow. And then they should be incoropted into poland like in old times ( joke ) i think it all is the past, we should move on and live togheter as people we didnt do this things our grandparents did and is ashamed of it, we are the new age we have nothing to do with this.

There is claims in for the properties, should Ukraine pay or Poland?

no

That has been taken care of. Poles resettled from Ukraine received properties in areas taken away by the Soviets from Germany. Sometimes the settlers won (got better than what they had to leave behind), sometimes they lost.

Carol, it's good that you feel patriotic but I think there is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism. I also think there is a time when the past should be considered history, as in the subject of studies out of pure interest, not motivated by revisionism or material reward. The reality today is such that even if Poland demanded reparations from Ukraine nothing but stench would come out of that. Nobody would receive a penny, but the stench would still remain.

I think right now it's a good time for the two countries to get close as friends, not enemies. Enough is enough.

No it has not been taken care of like the families were told it would be. Poles resettled across the world. The claims are to be into the Polish goverment by December 2008. Carol, Roman Catholic, USA

I talked to half Polish half Ukrainian girl recently, she says that Ukrainians hate Poles, but pretend to like them because they need Poles to get closer to Europe. Poland does stupid thing to support Bandera supporter Juschchenko.

Does it not depend on Ukraine's relationship with itself?

I read that the Anglo-Ukrainian band 'The Ukrainians' (possibly more Ukrainian then than Anglo although they're from Leeds), always enjoy playing in Poland, partly for the receptive audiences, but also for the Polish vodka they enjoy.

And some may say that It's not a smart behavior.

Actually Ukrainians are afraid of Poland and they regard Poles as soulless and very westernized Slavs.

It's not smart to be truly sorry for their actions?



Just as Russia must do, take responsability for past abuse and stop pretending it will go away. Do you know how many lives were hurt from their actions. You tried to kill my whole family but 1/2 of them lived through your abuse. Now a nation waits for both countries to stop living in a fantasy that their are no surviors. I am here to say there are. Lets start healing by being honest and truly sorry. When this happens maybe trust can grow. Carol, USA

Now this is what has to take place.
"memorial is to commemorate the Jewish and Polish citizens of Lowicz and also the Soviet POWs "

Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Claus. Carol

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1941889/posts

I have an idea.Send some troops to Ukraine to find the mass graves.

They did. Please don't tell me you want to see them as they are not pretty.
Carol

My abuse... ?

Just as Germany took responsability and Poland, if you are in Ukraine or Russia, they are also responsable and must take it. I did not mean to imply one Russian or one Ukrainian is responsable.

I'm not...

What you seem to be forgeting Carol,is that largley,the Ukraine or Russia were not "responsible" the USSR on the other hand,and more specifically Stalin were,and as both are now dead and buried somethings have to be moved on.
Can you imagine(and I know there is no parallel in scale of suffering) if the United states and Canada were still sqabiling aboutwhich parralel the border should be fixed at,or the arguing and demanding reperations for lost trading posts on either side of the border(canada used to have trading rights as far south as nocal). At some point the past has to be aknowladged and then moved on from.Why stir up resentments between the two nations who arguably suffered the most under the Soviets?

You don't even know what she is talking about...

yes i do,the deportation of her family by the Soviet NKVD, get over yourself G'.Other people have opinions you dont like,tough luck,welcome to democracy baby :)

I aggree with this, the point has yet to be dealt with is my point. Millions of peoples lives destroyed and yet two countries find it so difficult to apologize.

Ukraine came close and said yes I feel we owe you an apology, then never did. Poland on the other hand did apoligize for the sins placed upon Ukraine by communist Poland.

Russia, where do I start. President Putin looks like a fool. There I said it. Yes, "Man of the year is a joke". He took office and there fore represnts his people. In the name of his fore fathers it is his job to say, "I am sorry for Stalins behavior and the pain he inflicted on your people", instead the fool pretends that if he ignors millions of victims that Stalin spread upon the earth, it will be forgotten. Well no it will not be forgotten and millons do not trust Russia because their messed up Putin is thinking no one see's.
I am here to say, we see and a nation waits for him to become a man of honor.

Poland, USA and Britain Germany have made errors, the differance is they admit when wrong, we are human. Healing cannot start until they are able to be human and care.

In Ukraine they slapped many in the face with a parade for SS that killed many, a stone with "unknown" because Ukraine felt writting Polish names was wrong as it is not Poland any longer. Try respectfully placing the Polish names, they were there and deserve this. If truth be known Poland can be Ukraine's best friend, but friends must deal with the truth, then start new.


Carol, USA still waiting

Not sure what graves you are refering to,but,although the pre war Polish army wore metal "dog tags" any Poles who fought alongside the soviets would not have worn these,Soviet policy was only Party members had official ID( a small,bakalite tube,not unlike a dog collor id holder,with a strip of paper written details) and reported graves etc. So maybe they are genuinly Unknown Polish warriors?
It would be nice for all "countries" to apologies for their past misdeeds,but what would it realy mean? Japan apologised for its treatment of our POWs (one example,Changi prison,150,000 POWs,140.000 Died/Murdered) but I dont know a single Far east vetern who cared,it made no difference to their nightmares to have the Grandchildren of the guilty apologise for a crime.
Last year,in the uk,Blair asked us all to "apologies for the slave trade",a bit of a cheek many of us thought as Britain abolished this in 1836,and I for one certainly dont feel responsible for the possible actions of my great,great,great,great,great grandpa.

Thats the trouble though, agreeing on just what the truth is,with most of the actual participents dead there is not much chance of this,there is not going to be some truth and reconciliation process like South Africa post aparthied where both sides can admit to guilt and explain their pain.

My father is still alive as are two aunts, my grandfather passed away July 17, 1992. Ukraine is screaming about the abuse 1932-33 "Holodomor"(my family lived through this also) yet you think I am going to far in the past. I am the first generation born in USA. So you see it was my grandmother and aunts, uncles that were killed. It was my grandfather, father that lost their country.

Look at the relationship Poland has with Germany. Respect is much higher due to the fact that responsability was taken.

VOLYN 1943-1944, AN UNKNOWN TRAGEDY
The Terrible Interethnic Conflict Between Ukrainians and Poles in Volyn National dignity means truth for ourselves and our descendants

http://www.artukraine.com/historical/volyn_trag.htm

Read this full artical as it shows clearly how it effects the present.

Carol

Relations between Poland and Ukraine are better on both government and individual level than between Poland and Germany. Gerries simply had to "take responsability" because they didn't have any other option. And in central and eastern Ukraine many people don't have much different opinion about UPA than average Poles.

Respect of Germans towards Poles?

I saw plenty of Polish flags flying in Kievs main square during the Orange revolution,every Pole I knew at the time was genuinly rooting for the Ukrainiane people(and not as some might say because A, they didnt want any possible civil unrest drifting accross the border or B the alternative was a Moscow facing Ukraine) with a real sense of solidarity. Im afraid every country had its SS members during the war Carol,even Poland,though these slipped in as Volksdeutsche,if you start holding back reletions because a country had a mixed history in WW2 ,diplomaticaly you'll become very lonely very fast.