Poland from a Persian Tourist's Perspective

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 8, 10, 11:17 #61
"Caucasian" is a dumb political correct term coming from the US. Somehow people calling "White" was not anymore allowed. We definitely need a "White History Month"...some are really unclear about the history and achievements of the white race, going so far to downtalk and denying anything!

MatowyThreads: 1 Posts: 519 Joined: Jul 4, 09 ♂	Edited by: Matowy Mar 8, 10, 11:22 #62
Bratwurst Boy: "Caucasian" is a dumb political correct term coming from the US. Somehow people calling "White" was not anymore allowed. Please, I would never indulge in sub-standard American substitutions. You seem to be unaware of the real meaning of "Caucasian". Amathyst: Iranians are generally considered arabs No they're not, they're considered Persian, or more broadly Middle-Eastern.

AmathystThreads: 30 Posts: 3,898 Joined: Nov 10, 06 ♀	Edited by: Amathyst Mar 8, 10, 11:33 #63
Matowy: or more broadly Middle-Eastern Aisan then, I did give him a optionn, Im also talking modern day, not how Persians used to be when they had their own alphabet etc, they are more Arab now. Matowy: No they're not, they're considered Persian Iranian actually..

MatowyThreads: 1 Posts: 519 Joined: Jul 4, 09 ♂	Mar 8, 10, 11:37 #64
Amathyst: Aisan then, I did give him a optionn, Im also talking modern day, not how Persians used to be when they had their own alphabet etc, they are more Arab now. By that logic, everyone in Europe from Iceland to Croatia must be English then, because they all use the Latin alphabet. "Persian" is a specific Middle-Eastern ethnic group. Not Arab at all.

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Mar 8, 10, 12:02 #65

DariusTraveller:

Narrowminded Village societies

Well, next time take some bottle of vodka with you, those people are much better than they look ;-) All jokes aside, statistical Polish village is conservative place, it takes time to crack the ice there.

PS. Darius, what about this nuclear bomb project in Iran? In your opinion, do your country really need that weapon? If so, then what for? After all if I'm not mistaken Poland is in a range of Persian rockets.

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Edited by: DariuszTelka Mar 8, 10, 12:36 #66

Matowy:

What exactly do you define as "white"? You seem to be using the "modern" (but obsolete) definition of "Caucasian" which encompasses Europe, North Africa and the Western half of Asia, but you seemingly shift this definition to your liking. So are you saying that only the Caucasian peoples are civilized and educated? If so, where exactly does East Asia fit in with your view of the world? Japan is far more advanced in technology than ANY Western country. The Chinese far more intelligent. South Korea can go either way.

Also, the drawing is white because it's drawn in pencil on a white paper...

White as in white! Not brown or black. How hard is that to understand? The fairer the skin, the higher the civilization. That is not because I'm a racist, but basic evolution. People in Europe evolved much more than the people dwelling in the southern hemisphere. We had to survive, evolve...think, consequenses, harvest, cooperate....if you ever saw a program on discovery about the evolution of species you will understand this. (So you don't have to open a book).

Again, read my posts in the "Mosques in Krakow" thread and follow the link to get what I'm talking about. I explain Japan, China and Korea there. If you read it, which you obviously didn't, parts of Asia and the jews have populations with a higher IQ than whites. No problem! Actually I wished it could be the same for africans and arabs, our world would be absolutely fantastic, but it's not.

About the drawing...really? Have you thought this through? If he was black or dark skinned....they would have made him so....they used dark colour to make his profile...no problem filling in his skin with with the same colour...I know it's hard to fathom this.... :-0
Do you also believe that the early pharaoes were africans? Or that Hannibal was black too?

Matowy:

Persia already went through its golden age. At one time, it was the world centre of riches, mysticism, philosophy, science and civility, and this was when Islam was already widespread throughout Persia. Even Europe marvelled at its grandeur. Like all great civilizations, it eventually ended. I don't remember the exact time frame for this golden age, but perhaps Darius knows. I doubt this matters, though, as this golden age in Persia's history probably doesn't fit with your worldview.

Wow, you haven't really read any history at all have you. Persia saw it's golden age between 625BC and 650AD. After the invasion and devestation of their empires and glorious history by the muslim hordes, came a dark hand and removed what could have been one of the greatest empires of all time. Thousands were slaughtered, books were burnt and age-old knowledge was abandoned. But the persians resisted more than others.

"The Muslim conquest of Persia led to the end of the Sassanid Empire in 644, the fall of Sassanid dynasty in 651 and the eventual decline of the Zoroastrian religion in Persia".

"This view furthermore holds that, once politically conquered, the Persians began to resist the Arabs culturally and succeeded in introducing their own ways on the Arabs and maintaining Persian, as opposed, to Arab culture".

"The Battle of Nihawand was one of the most decisive battles in Islamic history and certainly the most decisive battle in the history of Persia. More decisive than Alexander’s fatal blow at the Battle of Gaugamela, because after Gaugamela the Persians recovered within a few centuries and built an other Persian empire, but after Umar's blow to the Persians at Nihawind, the Persians would never raise another empire".

"Iran was indeed Islamized, but it was not Arabized. Persians remained Persians. And after an interval of silence, Iran reemerged as a separate, different and distinctive element within Islam, eventually adding a new element even to Islam itself. Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, the Iranian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance".

See, with enlightenment from white people, white thinking, islam in Persia had a "enlightenment". If only they could have one more today. Without the science, history, literature and knowledge of the white societies in Persia, Islam would have not had it's "golden age". A muslim "golden age", that was so short, if you blink your eye in the time of history, you'll miss it. It has never since been seen...

So, the persians never really accepted the old Islam and kept their traditions and higher culture. That's how they could still achieve greatness to a certain degree after the invasions. But little by little, they were outbred, outnumbered and forced to accept more and more of the islamic culture. After just a few hundred years, all the great minds, the great thinkers, the great science, it all died out. What's left is what we see today. A country on the brink of civil war, religion controlling every aspect of life and freedom limited to the rich and powerful.

Why do you want islam to be such great religion? It has never been and will never be anything but a cult of evil. Just look at the countries that profess to that religion today, even with all our technology at hand, they still can't build a modern, free and democratic society.

Dariusz

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Mar 8, 10, 12:53 #67

DariuszTelka:

White as in white! Not brown or black. How hard is that to understand? The fairer the skin, the higher the civilization. That is not because I'm a racist, but basic evolution. People in Europe evolved much more than the people dwelling in the southern hemisphere. We had to survive, evolve...think, consequenses, harvest, cooperate....if you ever saw a program on discovery about the evolution of species you will understand this. (So you don't have to open a book).

What you believe in is nothing more than foolish 19'th century pseudo-science which has been invalidated by further science in that field many times already. "The fairer the skin, the higher the civilization" - seriously? This isn't even racism anymore, it is just stupid. No scientific basis, no anthropological basis, no evolutionary basis (contrary to what you believe). White people have white skin because they moved to areas of the world where their dark skin was no longer necessary, so eventually they shed the genes enforcing darker pigmentations because it became obsolete. That's all. There is no scientific or genetic link between skin pigmentation genes and intelligence. You are simply a fool grasping at straws to justify crappy viewpoints. Do not get any illusions; science is not on your side.

DariuszTelka:

Again, read my posts in the "Mosques in Krakow" thread and follow the link to get what I'm talking about. I explain Japan, China and Korea there. If you read it, which you obviously didn't, parts of Asia and the jews have populations with a higher IQ than whites. No problem!

No, not "no problem". It blows your stupid pseudo-science theory to pieces. East Asians have dark(er) skin, and yet they're more intelligent than whites based on IQ. Your pseudo-science theory is destroyed.

DariuszTelka:

About the drawing...really? Have you thought this through? If he was black or dark skinned....they would have made him so....they used dark colour to make his profile...no problem filling in his skin with with the same colour...I know it's hard to fathom this.... :-0

I was actually making a joke about the drawing, but WOW, you really do think that he was white because the artist didn't colour in his drawing? Holy ****....

DariuszTelka:

Wow, you haven't really read any history at all have you. Persia saw it's golden age between 625BC and 650AD. After the invasion and devestation of their empires and glorious history by the muslim hordes, came a dark hand and removed what could have been one of the greatest empires of all time. Thousands were slaughtered, books were burnt and age-old knowledge was abandoned. But the persians resisted more than others.

No, the period I'm thinking of is a bit later.

DariuszTelka:

Why do you want islam to be such great religion? It has never been and will never be anything but a cult of evil. Just look at the countries that profess to that religion today, even with all our technology at hand, they still can't build a modern, free and democratic society.

I don't care what Islam does or does not do. It is simply a religion, it is nothing more than that. "Cult of evil"? No. The Muslim culture can be crappy sometimes, but so can Christian culture. I make no distinctions on this. What Muslims choose to do is not my concern either. I prefer secularization, but I respect peoples individuals choices, even if I do think they're poorly-informed.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 8, 10, 12:55 #68
Amathyst, Iranians are not considered as Arabs by educated folk. Only fools think that way. Do not call a Persian an Arab in their presence as they'll get mortally offended. They are Muslims, yes.

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Mar 8, 10, 13:00 #69
Seanus: Amathyst, Iranians are not considered as Arabs by educated folk. Only fools think that way. Do not call a Persian an Arab in their presence as they'll get mortally offended. They are Muslims, yes. Kind of like calling a Pole "Germanic"...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 8, 10, 13:25 #70
Sth like that, yeah. Although some Poles would take that as a compliment ;)

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Mar 8, 10, 13:41 #71

Matowy:

What you believe in is nothing more than foolish 19'th century pseudo-science which has been invalidated by further science in that field many times already. "The fairer the skin, the higher the civilization" - seriously? This isn't even racism anymore, it is just stupid. No scientific basis, no anthropological basis, no evolutionary basis (contrary to what you believe). White people have white skin because they moved to areas of the world where their dark skin was no longer necessary, so eventually they shed the genes enforcing darker pigmentations because it became obsolete. That's all. There is no scientific or genetic link between skin pigmentation genes and intelligence. You are simply a fool grasping at straws to justify crappy viewpoints. Do not get any illusions; science is not on your side.

You are one seriously indoctrinated person. How come africa is poor and Europe is wealthy? (Don't go talking about colonies now). They've had their freedom for hundreds of years. Enormous wealth in farming, minerals and land. How come the arab states are so full of violence and hate? No prosperity there either. How come so much of Asia is dirt poor? How come all the western countries occupied by whites are so propsperous? Even those that didn't have any colonies and haven't gone to war like Norway, where we have winter 5 months of the year and most of our land is mountains and rock? While some african countries, the size of the whole of Europe, warm all year round, with vast resources can't even feed themselves? How come the former colonies in africa were called "the breadbasket" of Africa (Zimbabwe), when they were occupied/ruled by whites, but are now on the brink of total collapse? (Don't say corruption, we have that here too). How come whites that moved to Africa always thrived, gave people healthcare, food, education, something the negroes now can't give themselves, with the same land, the same infrastrucure, the same buildings, the same learning facilities that the whites left? How come South Africa is one of the most violent countries in the world after Mandela took over, where they kill eacother over pocket change and rape women every 4 minutes? How come all the areas the black and arab people occupy in our western cities look more and more like the places they came from? Where drugs, murders and rapes are daily occurances? It's not like that in my hometown, where 99% are white. How come?

When I point out to you that the persian empire had it's golden time before the muslims conquered them by blood and sword, then you don't feel like talking about it anymore. But you still keep on harping about "we're all the same". How many examples do you need? How about Egypt? What happened after the muslims took over that country? What happened to their great dynasties there? We can go through every great nation that islam has set it's foot in and see the same pattern. Pre-islam; Greatness and prosperity, after islam; darkness, misery and totalitarianism. When white nations go to war and destroy everything, we usually rebuild the same areas to even greater places than before. How come the persian or egyptian empires did not do the same? What was the reason to just abandon all the magnificent buildings, the art, the history and the labour of so many generations? Part of Poland was flattened. So were cities in Germany, and Russia...even in Norway. Today these cities are modern, beautiful with magnificent art, culture and with everything a person could ever ask for. What's left in Persia or Egypt? What's left in Zimbabwe?

Matowy:

I was actually making a joke about the drawing, but WOW, you really do think that he was white because the artist didn't colour in his drawing? Holy ****....

Holy crap, but I don't know when your dellusion starts and when it stops.

Matowy:

Wow, you haven't really read any history at all have you. Persia saw it's golden age between 625BC and 650AD. After the invasion and devestation of their empires and glorious history by the muslim hordes, came a dark hand and removed what could have been one of the greatest empires of all time. Thousands were slaughtered, books were burnt and age-old knowledge was abandoned. But the persians resisted more than others.

No, the period I'm thinking of is a bit later.

Oh you mean the time when Persia stopped being a superpower? That was the "golden age" of Persia? The time when education and old religions were forbidden and when worshipping a pedophile murderer became obligatory? Yeah, I can see you finding that to be the "Golden age of Persia".

Matowy:

I don't care what Islam does or does not do. It is simply a religion, it is nothing more than that. "Cult of evil"? No. The Muslim culture can be crappy sometimes, but so can Christian culture. I make no distinctions on this. What Muslims choose to do is not my concern either. I prefer secularization, but I respect peoples individuals choices, even if I do think they're poorly-informed.

Christianity stopped being crappy, like islam is today, half a century ago. If you can't see the difference between christianity as we have it today, and islam, then you must be blind. (Sorry to all blind people out there). You say you prefer secularization, so do I. But turning a blind eye on the most brutal, anti-human, anti-female, anti-education, oppressive cult that ever came out of humanity does make you slightly naive.

Dariusz

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Mar 8, 10, 14:00 #72

DariuszTelka:

You are one seriously indoctrinated person. How come africa is poor and Europe is wealthy? (Don't go talking about colonies now). They've had their freedom for hundreds of years. Enormous wealth in farming, minerals and land. How come the arab states are so full of violence and hate? No prosperity there either. How come so much of Asia is dirt poor? How come all the western countries occupied by whites are so propsperous? Even those that didn't have any colonies and haven't gone to war like Norway, where we have winter 5 months of the year and most of our land is mountains and rock? While some african countries, the size of the whole of Europe, warm all year round, with vast resources can't even feed themselves? How come the former colonies in africa were called "the breadbasket" of Africa (Zimbabwe), when they were occupied/ruled by whites, but are now on the brink of total collapse? (Don't say corruption, we have that here too). How come whites that moved to Africa always thrived, gave people healthcare, food, education, something the negroes now can't give themselves, with the same land, the same infrastrucure, the same buildings, the same learning facilities that the whites left? How come South Africa is one of the most violent countries in the world after Mandela took over, where they kill eacother over pocket change and rape women every 4 minutes?

I don't know the answers to those questions. Guess what? Neither do you. I would personally theorize it to being the seeds that the Roman Empire planted that resulted in Western prosperity, but that is just my personal thoughts. You, however... you take all of these complex issues and simplify them with "blacks are just stupid, whites are intelligent". Nothing is that simple, and if you think that things are that simple... well, you're just proof that white people are not as intelligent as you think.

And don't think I haven't noticed how you haven't backed up your pitiful theory with anything remotely scientific. You are just pointing to places and saying "Look, this place is populated by blacks and it sucks, obviously the blacks are stupid". If you want to be taken seriously, then provide scientific backing. Right now you just look like a racist who is trying to justify his views with pseudo-science. You wouldn't be the first.

How come all the areas the black and arab people occupy in our western cities look more and more like the places they came from? Where drugs, murders and rapes are daily occurances? It's not like that in my hometown, where 99% are white. How come?

My hometown is 93% white, and my work town is 99% white. Guess what? Drugs, assault, sex crimes, teenage pregnancy, poverty, underage sex, lack of education are all as high as they can possibly be in this country. Why is that? Who the **** knows. Let's not defile these matters matters by making dumb assumptions.

DariuszTelka:

When I point out to you that the persian empire had it's golden time before the muslims conquered them by blood and sword, then you don't feel like talking about it anymore.

No, I said plainly that the period I remember from my readings on the subject took place during Islamic rule. I do not remember the name or exact time for this period, so I refrain from mentioning it. You can think what you want, I will leave you to boil and degrade in the hate that you accuse others of harbouring.

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Edited by: Seanus Mar 8, 10, 14:20 #73

First off, they are heavily in debt and repaying loans through the IMF and other agencies. Secondly, some leaders there are unscrupulous and not interested in the people, creaming off the profits. Also, foreign firms try to exploit their resources.

Having resources is one thing, selling them and returning the profits to the people is quite another. They have subsistence farming but large families so there often isn't enough to go around. Primogeniture ensures that such a cycle is repeated.

Another is a lack of experience of such things like insurance and other mainstays in the West. It is not their way of doing things.

Why is SA violent? Simply because their emotions were so repressed, trapped in a bottle, and now they're coming out. Trample on people for so long and they'll crack.

Dariusz, please go and watch a video on who controls the diamond mines there. You'll be surprised.

Why are the Arab states hateful? Well, look at Sunni Islam and Wahhabism. Jihad too. They reject the plundering and intervention of the West. Also, it's in their genes.

Do I really need to get started on Zimbabwean politics? You should be able to answer your own question. Mugabe would be a good start and, indeed, a good finish.

Also, the dominant tribes (according to number anyway) are not represented proportionally in Africa by governments. Do you really think that proportional representation applies there?

Read 'The Long Road to Freedom' by Nelson Mandela. It's one of his biographies. When he was working on his ANC, he didn't endorse open violence but peoples' nature is peoples' nature.

How come parts of Asia are poor? Examine their wealth generators and you can answer that question quite easily. They have many markets where people haggle well and they are desperate for sales. Big money businesses like MMA fighting don't receive the promotion over there. They have fighters but it's locally organised and not hyped up. It doesn't generate anything like the revenue of sb like Dana White (UFC).

Also, another crucial point is that we shouldn't impose our values and standards on them. They don't value education like we do, they have different setups. How many publishing houses for books do you imagine there are in Africa?

There's no prosperity in Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar? They have ample wealth.

Iceland and Greece are prosperous?

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Mar 8, 10, 14:46 #74

Matowy:

lack of education are all as high as they can possibly be in this country

You mean we have dropped in the league tables in Europe? That might have something to do with the amount of foreign languages being spoken in our schools and the fact teachers are struggling, even with the stupid amounts of money that tax payers have to contribute to teaching English to kids in England who have come here from every corner of the globe. Your statement is also quite flawed, if you look at the stats for kids leaving with 5 or more GCSEs you will find that it's at an all time high, along with kids wanting to go the university.

Matowy:

be English then, because they all use the Latin alphabet

How would that make sense? Since English is littered with Latin words, but its not our native lanaguge, Latin originated ancient Rome, not England, we acquired the alphabet along with lots of other european countries.

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Mar 8, 10, 14:49 #75

Amathyst:

You mean we have dropped in the league tables in Europe? That might have something to do with the amount of foreign languages being spoken in our schools and the fact teachers are struggling, even with the stupid amounts of money that tax payers have to contribute to teaching English to kids in England who have come here from every corner of the globe. Your statement is also quite flawed, if you look at the stats for kids leaving with 5 or more GCSEs you will find that it's at an all time high, along with kids wanting to go the university.

I was actually referring specifically to my county, which performs horribly in education tables, and it shows.

Amathyst:

How would that make sense? Since English is littered with Latin words, but its not our native lanaguge, Latin originated ancient Rome, not England, we acquired the alphabet along with lots of other european countries.

In the same way that Persians beings Arabs makes sense, of course.

AmathystThreads: 30 Posts: 3,898 Joined: Nov 10, 06 ♀	Mar 8, 10, 15:11 #76
Matowy: I was actually referring specifically to my county, which performs horribly in education tables, and it shows. Mine didnt, or should I say the Roman Catholic schools do rather well, I wonder why? Matowy: In the same way that Persians beings Arabs makes sense, of course. I did offer an alternative of Asian. You however were completely off the scale.

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Mar 8, 10, 17:53 #77

Amathyst:

Mine didnt, or should I say the Roman Catholic schools do rather well, I wonder why?

I don't know... maybe whatever factor causes Roman Catholic schools in your area to work so well is the same mechanism that causes Roman Catholic schools in my area, like the one I attended, do so not-well?

Amathyst:

I did offer an alternative of Asian. You however were completely off the scale.

I do not care what you "offered". You made an inaccurate statement and I corrected you. Iranians/Persians are not Arabs, nor can they conceivably be considered so. You can call them Asian if you wish, I was simply correcting your mistake.

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Edited by: DariusTraveller Mar 8, 10, 19:08 #78

No offence people but this thread has turned into one big unproductive shouting match so I'm just going to walk all the way around some of these topics but I'll comment shortly on the significant topics.

I'm not going to get too much into the insanity of race relations but to claim that the people of the Persian empire were purely "white" or European in any sense is just plainly uneducated. I don't blame anyone here for being ill informed as it's not your fault. As I mentioned earlier, the history of the Persian empire and the Persians has repeatedly been swept under the rug in western schools. A lot of historical artifacts and drawings are still stuck in Iran this day today. I have seen many and there are paintings with entire armies of "brown men" with long curly black beards... Nuff said on that.

Just recently last year a group of people from a Persian history organization campaigned against the lack of funding on Persian history and libraries who had deliberately excluded Persian History from their shelves while they proudly boasted hundreds of books on the Greek Empire and several other empires. They also campaigned against publishers who would print history books without even a single mention of the Persian empire.

The world is not as forward thinking as you might think when western historians deliberately manipulate world events in order to perceive European superiority ... I'm not saying things like this doesn't also happen elsewhere in Far East Asia but I'm mentioning Europe now as this seems to be a practice which happens far too often on this side of the world, what's happening today is no different than when the catholic church banned books all over Europe back in the day. It's simply easier to control people when you keep them in the dark and brainwash them with methods taken right out of the Nazi handbook.

Fact is that a lot of Europe's advances were made off of piggybacking on Middle Eastern breakthroughs in the fields of science, specially physics and mathematics. When Europeans were living the simple life in Mud houses the Persians were carving an entire river through the desert, When religious nutjobs went rampant all over Europe the Arabs were making world changing discoveries in maths. I've studied mathematics on an advanced level and it's a historical fact that many of the world changing breakthroughs in these fields were discovered by Arabs and Persians. I'm not saying that Europeans didn't also contribute greatly to these fields but these significant historical figures came later on when Europe had lifted itself to the level that the middle east had been at for ages.

It's easy to manipulate the course of history when debating on the Internet. I'm not a nationalist and I couldn't care less about who's whiter or who's smarter. But we all know that if it wasn't for science we would not be debating online right now, instead we would all be living in mud houses and we would all be hunting our dinner tonight with bows and arrows. we can all understand science and any of you guys can pick up a science history book and immediately notice the over representation of middle easterners.

DariuszTelka:

How come africa is poor and Europe is wealthy? (Don't go talking about colonies now). They've had their freedom for hundreds of years. Enormous wealth in farming, minerals and land. How come the arab states are so full of violence and hate? No prosperity there either.

Are you really that uneducated? Oil, Gold, Diamonds, gun-running... These are the reasons why Africa is still poor. Foreign nations and corporations both western and eastern still exploit Africa this day today. Just an example.. who do you think imported 100.000 brand new machetes into Rwanda right before the civil war began in 1994?... The Brtish. In other words they meddle with the affairs of another country.

DariuszTelka:

How come the arab states are so full of violence and hate? No prosperity there either.

Mainly because of Israel and the constant foreign meddling into their own countries affairs. I don't know why you would claim that there's no prosperity in the middle east? There's lots of prosperity in the massive cities all over... but of course you can't see that because you think that it's all just one big dry desert. Am I right?

Amathyst:

I prefer the word English, but that doesnt stop people calling me British :D

So many negative things to say about our intolerence in Europe, which is slighty rich coming off someone whose country is run by a nazi who denies the fact the millions of people were murdered in camps in WWII, whose people have television sensored and public hangings are still easy to find. Probably the reason you have so many hanging around Calis trying to sneak into trucks bound for my Island.

21, lived in several Western Countries...plus 4 other countries, you stays must have been short.

Your somehow under the illusion that I'm Pro Islamic Republic and that I would be offended by what you're saying? Yes you're right, our country has been occupied by Nazi Mullahs, Yes you're right. The current president of the occupation does deny WWII and yes you're right Public hangings and the imprisonments of thousands of political prisoners in Evin prison is a reality. And yes.. Television and Internet is censored but that can be circumvented with a satellite dish and proxy server... What's you're point with all of this?

If you're somehow trying say that we turned our own country into what it is today then you're seriously a sad case. I think you should read up on your very own British history where you'll find some very useful information about the 1953 Iranian coup d'état.

Now you might wonder.. what does a foreign coup d'état have to do with England? Back in 1951 we had everything, no Islam, prosperity, freedom, democracy, a real president. You name it we had it. In 1953 the CIA along with the British government staged an overthrow of the democratically-elected Iranian government and our prime minister in a covert operation against us... a foreign government. Now what was our "crime"? Our president had nationalized the British-owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), so our country could benefit more from the sale of its vast national petroleum resources... Basically Oil.

In a nutshell your country messed up my democratic country with a democratically elected parliament and president and turned it into an Islamic hellhole all because you greedy people wanted an unfair share of OUR cake. All our parliament did was to stand up against an injustice. The actions of YOUR British government is the DIRECT cause of why my country is what it is today. This is an undeniable fact and it has been acknowledged by your own government.

You brought it up! So here's the truth. You burned down my house and now I'm living in your house haha! And yes I have a British passport which allows me to live in your damn country. I also have a Swedish passport just incase. Do you think I wanted to live in your country? I didn't and I never intended on coming to Europe. You can thank your government for destroying and forcing me to move out of my own country. I still live back home for months at a time and I only go to Europe to study as it's not exactly a picnic to live in western Europe.

I think you should brush up on your history and learn more about what atrocities Britain have done to my homeland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

All jokes aside.. I didn't want to discuss any of this in this thread, all I wanted was to hear some polish opinions but I can't ignore a British guy who's taunting the misery of my homeland when his government was the sole cause of it. I'd be very ashamed if I did that.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 8, 10, 20:05 #79
Darius, is Mousavi really any better? He is not pro-American as he attacked them in 1983 in Lebanon.

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Edited by: DariusTraveller Mar 8, 10, 20:50 #80

Seanus:

Darius, is Mousavi really any better? He is not pro-American as he attacked them in 1983 in Lebanon.

You have to understand that politics in Iran today is nothing more than theater to fool the outside world. All of these guys are on the payroll high up. The real leaders are the clerics and they control everything. For example If you want to go to a good university you need to be religious, rich, and on a first name basis with a cleric.

The only reason people support this guy is is because he's 1. A Nationalist and 2. A Leftist and 3. Promises more freedom. People secretly hope that if a guy like that gets elected that things will change but I'm pretty sure that's not the case... He's not exactly a saint and he made some horrible decisions back in '79.

Pro-American or not is insignificant, The U.S and the British has meddled enough in our affairs already and President Jimmy Carter made one of the worst foreign policy decisions back in 79' Everyone knows it but they'd rather look away and pretend nothing happened.

personally I think people should rise up and start a Republican Army like they did in Ireland and elsewhere. A guerrilla campaign against the authority. Unfortunately that won't happen as gun running is controlled very strictly so people can't get their hands on them. I don't know how effective a small army armed with kitchen knifes would be but if millions can gather in the streets then so can a million people armed with knifes.

This is of course all just guesswork and daydreaming. over 50% of the population consist of people under 25 and their biggest worry is not armed struggle over the next 100 years, but instead it's probably what type of hairwax they're going to choose in the morning.

Personally I just blame the older generation, they let this happen in the fist place including Mousavi.. He knows what he did.

♂

Mar 8, 10, 22:01 #81

Excellent summary, Darius, thanks. However, don't you think Ahmedinejad is often victimised? He seems to be tolerant to Jews, understands the destructive ways of the West and defends his right to pursue nuclear energy options.

The Ayatollah has more power than he does and he doesn't want to eliminate anyone. I don't believe Ahmedinejad said that he wanted to wipe Israel off of the map but I do believe he'd be formidable with a weapon.

♂

Edited by: DariusTraveller Mar 9, 10, 00:18 #82

Seanus:

Excellent summary, Darius, thanks. However, don't you think Ahmedinejad is often victimised? He seems to be tolerant to Jews, understands the destructive ways of the West and defends his right to pursue nuclear energy options.

The Ayatollah has more power than he does and he doesn't want to eliminate anyone. I don't believe Ahmedinejad said that he wanted to wipe Israel off of the map but I do believe he'd be formidable with a weapon.

As I said. It's all theater at best. The presidency is a puppet post. I don't agree with what the man says most of the times but you have to remember that these people have occupied a country against our will so what comes out of the piehole has no credibility at all. It would be more wise to spend time on the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI) which is our real government in exile located in France.

I don't know why people keep claiming that we have a problem with the Jews or anyone else for that matter. Historically Persia has been a safehouse for Jews for millennia Iran has the largest Jewish population in the middle east and the average Persian doesn't give a damn about Judaism or Israel for that matter. Official state statistics show that 100% of the population are practitioners of Islam but that completely contradicts the picture you get inside the country. In actuality most people believe in Zoroastrianism and it's displayed everywhere, on windows, cars, jewelery, body tattoos, clothing etc. Jews are treated just as well as the native population so the whole Jew hating image is nothing more than war pornography portrayed in the media for the average western couch potato.

I don't know much about Nuclear energy other than it's clean, safe and it's the future. I think every country should be allowed to have it but this should be supervised by an external neutral council that's not manipulated by any country, superpower or union. If a government decides to turn that technology into A-Bombs then they have to suffer the consequences.

As for the whole "wipe Israel off of the map" debacle I just don't know what to say. That translation was probably THE most manipulative incorrect translation in modern day journalism. The man is a lying dog but there's no reason to twist someones words like that. he never used the words "wipe" "Israel" or "map" in the same sentence. All he said was: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time"
Again this demonstrates him being a puppet quoting what he's been told.

Personally I couldn't care less about all of this. If any country decides to attack I just hope they used trained snipers instead of bombs. The amount of historical monuments and sights lost in Iraq was just sad. Same thing happening here would be equality bad. But then again, this place isn't like Iraq.. We're not just a desert country. We have Alps A winter paradise, mountains, Surfer Beaches, Tropical Jungles, lots of forests etc.. The terrain is much different which is also the reason many countries are scared of sending troops in.

King SobieskiThreads: 7 Posts: 1,103 Joined: Jan 22, 07 ♂	Mar 9, 10, 00:33 #83
DariusTraveller: I don't know why people keep claiming that we have a problem with the Jews or anyone else for that matter. whether it is wrong or right, ahmedinejad is a mouth piece for your country.

beelzebubThreads: - Posts: 515 Joined: Feb 16, 10 ♂	Mar 9, 10, 00:36 #84
DariusTraveller: I don't know why people keep claiming that we have a problem with the Jews or anyone else for that matter. You cannot be serious?

♂

Edited by: DariusTraveller Mar 9, 10, 01:13 #85

Amathyst:

Yep and Pakistanis were Indian - you are now Iranians, not Persians, Iranians are generally considered arabs, but I can call you asian if you prefer? - and who can blame someone for thinking you're Muslim when its called "the Islamic Republic of Iran" A place where other religions are not exactly tolerated.

Not having a go, just putting you straight, if Europeans acted in their guests countries how they (the ones from developing countries) act in ours, you could be sure they'd get very different treatment, so before you go flaming that we are this and that...think for a moment why your average person is becoming less tolerent?

I just wanted to correct you on this one.. Your Pakistani/Indian example here is completely wrong Pakistanis and Indians are the same people but Pakistan and India are two very different countries, two very different people and two very different cultures.. They've all chosen a side by free will.

Irani is a term we have used within the country for thousands of years. Just like Finnish people call their country Suomi amongst themselves and Finland to the outside world. Just like Germans call themselves Deutsch and the country Deutschland, but on the map it says Germany. In the English language as a people we're still Persians and it's still called Persia, The reason people resist the labels Iranian and Iran are because of the ties to Nazi Germany. Just because someone send out a telegram to the world saying that we changed our name doesn't mean that we actually have. If someone changed the name of Poland to something else people wouldn't just stop being polish.

As for the whole issue about immigrants acting a certain way when they've lived in Europe I don't have much to say. There's only so much direct and subtle discrimination you can take at work, in school, in shops or elsewhere before you snap. It's kinda like if you have a child that you feed well and make sure they have everything, but you also sexual abuse them.
That child will most likely grow up to hate you even though you made sure they were well fed and had everything.

Currently there's millions of European Jews and Troops deployed all over the Middle East. they meddle in political affairs, they rape women, kill children and destroy lives just for fun..worst of all: They're not even guests they came out of the blue and just started grabbing land. Kinda sounds like the things you blame immigrants in the EU for right? So please don't give me an "IF Europeans" there's no "IF" here. You're already over here in the millions. Before you start twisting my words I'm not saying real Jews aren't welcome in the Middle East because they are and they're historically linked to the place.

All I'm saying is that most of the Europeans who settled in Israel weren't Jews, some had far far away Jewish ancestry and some were the real thing but most of these Europeans were nothing but frauds disguised as Jews who escaped the war and misery in Europe and the Soviet Union in order to create their own country. I don't care what anyone says about Jews in general but are you're seriously that blinded that you refuse to see the massive European Trojan horse that is Israel in the Middle East? Fact is that the majority of Israelis are Europeans and they behave FAR worse than anyone from the middle east EVER does ANYWHERE in Europe.

Just to clarify.. I'm not Anti Israel and I welcome true Jews and I hope that they someday have a real country of their own without a bunch of warmongering Euro frauds amongst them. There's a reason Antiantisemitism is such a big problem in Israel today, which is the sheer amount of frauds among them who secretly hate on real Jews and drive their Nazi agenda forward on the back of Judaism.

♂

Mar 9, 10, 01:25 #86

DariusTraveller:

As for the whole issue about immigrants acting a certain way when they've lived in Europe I don't have much to say. There's only so much direct and subtle discrimination you can take at work, in school, in shops or elsewhere before you snap. It's kinda like if you have a child that you feed well and make sure they have everything, but you also sexual abuse them.
That child will most likely grow up to hate you even though you made sure they were well fed and had everything.

that is just an excuse.

many different europeans (poles, italians, germans, ukranians, etc) all migrated to australia after ww2. they were often met with racism and called names like wogs.

you know what they did, ignored it and worked hard and built a life for themselves.

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Edited by: DariusTraveller Mar 9, 10, 01:39 #87

King Sobieski:

that is just an excuse.

many different europeans (poles, italians, germans, ukranians, etc) all migrated to australia after ww2. they were often met with racism and called names like wogs.

you know what they did, ignored it and worked hard and built a life for themselves.

No it's not. They were white Europeans who came to a country that was already occupied by other white Europeans. All they had to do was to assimilate, talk the same way, eat the same food, adopt the same values. After a generation or two they where the same as the locals.

I live in London sporadically for months at a time and I have a fluent North American accent. Even If I put on the best British accent that I can pull out of my hat I'm still no more British than I was before. the color of my skin and hair makes me a target for the so called "indigenous people" as the nationalist call themselves here. I know a danish guy in London who's uneducated and his English is worse than me but people still mistake him for being native, partly because he mumbles when he talks so his accent is less noticeable.

My point is.. This guy doesn't even put on an effort and half the time hes accepted as one of them. I do everything I can to be respectful culturally and educationally and I'm still met with lots of "go back home".

Of course you can't comprehend these kind of thoughts so I'm not going to discuss this topic any further.

♀

Edited by: Amathyst Mar 9, 10, 02:01 #88

DariusTraveller:

Your Pakistani/Indian example here is completely wrong Pakistanis and Indians are the same people but Pakistan and India are two very different countries, two very different people and two very different cultures.. They've all chosen a side by free will.

What are you talking about, before the partitioning there was no Pakistan, before the colonisaiton of the Brits, India was a WHOLE country...both muslims and Hindus lived side by side and co-existed (the wars with the Indians and the Brits actually started with the Sikhs)...The British caused a lot of the mess and division...As a English person Im not proud of this (but its not my shame, its decades ago), but I know the history, unlike you.

DariusTraveller:

No it's not. They were white Europeans who came to a country that was already occupied by other white Europeans. All they had to do was to assimilate, talk the same way, eat the same food, adopt the same values. After a generation or two they where the same as the locals.

Then you know little about Europe or England for that matter, because Italians that came from the rural areas and settled in Manchester in the mid 19th century were very different to the locals..yet they integrated...they had different ways and a different lanaguge but over 200 later..they are still here with the churches they founded...By the way Italians are olived skinned and dark eyed...where they settled, people were pale as cotton sheets.....One thing we do have is great Italian food in Manchester....so what was that you were saying?

Just in case you dont believe me.

http://www.culture24.org.uk/places+to+go/north+west/manchester/art4152 7

DariusTraveller:

the color of my skin and hair makes me a target

Same as those Swedish girls that get raped by foreigners....Do you want me to post you links?

♂

Edited by: King Sobieski Mar 9, 10, 02:14 #89

DariusTraveller:

No it's not. They were white Europeans who came to a country that was already occupied by other white Europeans. All they had to do was to assimilate, talk the same way, eat the same food, adopt the same values. After a generation or two they where the same as the locals.

i think you are generalising the experience of these migrants based on your preconceived ideas about what racism/bigotry should be.

have you seen many spanish, italians or greeks? olive skin and dark hair.

and chinese, they would experience a lot of racism, but they always seem to thrive where they settle.

im not saying it is okay and racism/bigotry is good but it is interesting to see how different culutres and ethnic groups handle such adversity.

DariusTraveller:

Of course you can't comprehend these kind of thoughts so I'm not going to discuss this topic any further.

what, coz i dont have dark hair or dark skin im not allowed to experience bigotry or comment on it. your view is as narrow minded as those you're condemning.

♂

Edited by: DariusTraveller Mar 9, 10, 02:50 #90

King Sobieski:

have you seen many spanish, italians or greeks? olive skin and dark hair.

I'm aware of that but you obviously haven't seen how they're treated in West and Northern Europe or else you wouldn't have mentioned them. They're treated just as bad as Middle Easterners as they're far too often mistaken for being from the Middle East thus being categories that way. I'm sorry but You haven't walked a colored mans shoes so you can't comprehend this thought hence your justification for this behavior and inability to condemn it.

As I said I'm not going to discuss this any further as you've failed to comment on anything but snippets of my long posts while you're obviously singling out and arguing race based topics with untrue statements and a vilifying agenda at mind along with other specific posters.

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