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Racism in Poland (at Gdansk airport)


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NorthMancPolakThreads: 6
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 Sep 1, 10, 12:39    #151
King Sobieski:
these days chink doesnt just refer to chinese, but all south asian countries.


Not over here, it doesn't. And anyway, I thought you called them "Gooks" over there, not Chinks. I wouldn't use either word personally, because I have no problem with East/South-East Asians.

King SobieskiThreads: 7
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 Sep 1, 10, 15:15    #152
NorthMancPolak:
And anyway, I thought you called them "Gooks" over there, not Chinks.


im not in the habit of throwing it around myself but my indonesian gf refers to herself sometimes and chinky winky.
nottThreads: 6
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Edited by: nott  Sep 1, 10, 20:30    #153
Mrs F:
Some people were born that way


I was. Opened my eyes and I knew nothing about sapiens. Then I climbed up the ladder. Then I got down and I stick to my mop.

As Pole, I am feeling quite relieved that your mother has enough reasons to feel better that those beetroots to have strength enough to know them for what they are. Thing is, she doesn't have to suffer it over and over again. Next time she should use the mobile or MP3 or whatever to record the proceedings, then face them, just for the satisfaction, and afterwards make a hell of a formal complaint, asking her renowned friends for help to make sure the thing grows big. Trying to contact the press wouldn't be a bad idea either. Even if she's unable to identify particular officers on the spot, date and time should be enough to give them hard time. This way she'll be branded as untouchable, first thing, and might even help to curb those practices in general.

And there should be Vietnamese embassy as well there? They may not consider it important enough to make an official memo to the PL government, but there are channels. There's anti-bribe law in Poland as well. Mark the banknotes, report to the police first thing out of the airport. Let everybody know it. Put up a Paypal account, you got $20 from me for the fund.

Edit:

£20. I had Polish keyboard on.
enkiduThreads: 18
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 Sep 1, 10, 20:45    #154
Mrs F:
Many Vietnamese people are notoriously singled out at polish airports - especially in Warsaw and Cracow, as they are an easy source of bribe for customs oficers. My grandma was stopped many times at Okecie airport, and had her luggage examined thoroughly by officers who - as they have honestly admitted - were searching for some valuables, pretty things or souvenirs that could be commandeered ( meaning kept for themselves as a spoil). In another incident I was examined by 8 oficers, also at charming Okecie airport, who were looking for things that they could charge me for, ie drugs or illegal chemical substance. As a result they were studying every single thing that I had in my luggage, starting from my clothes (they thought I had "molecules of heroine sewn into cotton threads'') , ending on my souvenirs ( a wooden turtle which was obviously empty inside - it made no sound when shaked, but uberintelligent oficer still claimed it had drugs hiden within). After 3 hours of compulsorily spending time with those 8 oficers, who understood terms of "humanity" and "civilisation" in slightly different way than the majority of human beings I was free to go, but I felt sorry ( and I still do) for them and their inferiority complex as they claimed that they "can't stand even looking at those yellow creatures". My grandmother, a elegant, eloquent and courteous person with PhD degree is very considerate every time when we are forced to deal with them at customs, but unfortunately they don't quite get how she is head and shoulders above them, they always threat Vietnamese people like dirt. It is a fact that every Vietnamese are singled out every time they arrive at Okecie and asked for bribe ( quotation "you can avoid 3 hours of examination but it will cost you $100 ). Even my grandma once had to give them bribe because she was feeling very sick (she has heart disease), but the oficer wouldn't let her go unless she paid him, so she had no choice as she was close to fainting. This is the sad reality of polish customs.
Off top : Racist who are proud of their country- don't expect your country feels the same about you. I have a lot of Polish friends, but I have to admit that they are educated, well-brought up people without criminal background.



Well... I just reported this post as a purely anti-Polish propaganda lacking of any facts, full of prejudices and innuendos. Just a bashing. We'll see what our mods, oh-so-sensitive on the other issues would do about this?
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Sep 1, 10, 21:24    #155
What I will say is that strikes me as false. They are not that pedantic and I doubt they would signal people out like that. I don't want to doubt your sincerity, Mrs F, but I just don't think they'd be that way. However, not knowing that to be a fact, I wouldn't childishly run to Big Brother like enkidu did either.

The defensive Poles rise again ;) If it ain't paradise, it ain't us ;)
mafketisThreads: 15
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 Sep 1, 10, 22:01    #156
enkidu:
I just reported this post as a purely anti-Polish propaganda lacking of any facts, full of prejudices and innuendos. Just a bashing.


Seanus:
What I will say is that strikes me as false. They are not that pedantic and I doubt they would signal people out like that.


Again, actually having known a number of Vietnamese people in Poland, it all sounds far too real for me (how many have you known enkidu and Seanus?). This isn't to say that Vietnamese people are some kind of angels since they willingly deal with corrupt officials if they think it's in their long term interest (viva future time orientation!).

But, having an industrious, entrepreneurial people who create wealth want to come to your country and assimilate is generally, a very good thing. Unfortunately, no Polish government has ever given the matter enough thought to work out a sensible Vietnamese immigration policy.
Mrs F  Sep 2, 10, 09:11    #157
enkidu

I have written to UN, AI and European Commission agencies, Anti-Racism Alliances and Action Groups in every major city of over 27 countries and also informed Polish human rights defender and opinion-forming press in Poland to 1) alert and let people know how customs in capital city in Poland works, creating sort of Okecie-airport-"Appertheit'' based on backhands ( In this point I would like to apologise all victims of the real Appertheit, but obviously there are some people who need exaggerated metaphor to understand how racism works) and 2) to warn all Asian workers of organisations mentioned above what they will encounter if they decide to travel to Poland in a legal way, automatically having to pass ''charming'' customs officers 3) raise the awareness of Asians who have faced racial discrimination in Polish customs and stand up to the way they are treated there, because giving bribe to customs officer will not change anything, on the contrary - it will encourage those kind of behaviour. But the situation of Vietnamese immigrants who can travel legally and have to pass Polish customs is complicated, because they were obliged by their financial situation to leave Vietnam and find other places where they would be able to earn their living ( those were days when it was difficult for an average healthy Vietnamese person to be on a salary higher than $100 a month - fortunately the reality have immensely changed as many Vietnamese people are coming back, because it is easier nowadays to earn money in Vietnam - economical boom, numberless foreign investors and so on). But there are Vietnamese people who have decided to stay in Poland for a longer while, and they are afraid of deportation, what is a constant threat to Asian immigrants in Poland. I don't live in Poland, neither my family does, so it is easier for us to stand up to racial discrimination we have encountered from those customs officers in Okecie, but if an Asian immigrant who lives in Poland does the same thing, it will be easy to find any reason to deport him/her. And if those deported people choose to continue their -now illegal- stay in Poland, they won't be able to benefit from ie health service, assurances or public schools, universities. So don't be surprised that so many Vietnamese keep their racially unjust encounters with Polish customs officers in silence.
Recording customs officers seems an brilliant idea, I had this concept too, but for now it is impossible to be brought off as I don't plan to visit Poland (not my idea, I'm busy with some stuff at my university).

And btw it was my Grandmother and Grandfahter who had the delight to meet Polish customs officers, my mother haven't been to Poland even once in her lifetime. She is too busy for trip to Poland, but she thinks Polish poeple who she have met are very pleasant and aimable.

Seanus
I'm very happy for you that you haven't been an object of racial discrimination, and I wish things stay that way as long as it is possible. And punctiliousness isn't quite a fortunate word, I would opt for discrimination and power abuse.

enkidu
You are an ignorant canary.
Now you can report this fact to your Mummy. And Oh- tell her that it came from the mouth of the prejudiced b**ch
Mrs F  Sep 2, 10, 09:18    #158
The first part was adressed to nott. My mistake
tow_stalinThreads: 2
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Edited by: tow_stalin  Sep 2, 10, 15:29    #159
pauls:
The suspicion was clearly based on nothing other than racism.


nonsense :)

have a nice day.
tow.stalin.

p.s. australian again?
jarnowaThreads: 5
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 Sep 2, 10, 18:58    #160
mafketis:
I personally think that if there's going to be immigration to Poland, the country could do a lot wore than Vietnamese - who are hard working, create wealth (improving the economy, no welfre immigration for them) and assimilate well to Polish norms.


In general they work hard, have a work permit, don't sell drugs, don't spread std's, bring their own women and don't commit crime.

Although anymore immigration of non-Europeans should be stopped, i rather see 10 Vietnamese immigrants than 1 from Africa/Middle East.
mafketisThreads: 15
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 Sep 2, 10, 20:11    #161
jarnowa:
Although anymore immigration of non-Europeans should be stopped


That's not gonna happen. At most the country can set up rational limits, try to enforce them, not hand out welfare for immigrants and take a zero-tolerance attitude toward crime - convicted and you're shipped back to your own country, even if it's a very bad place.
Mrs F  Sep 2, 10, 20:43    #162
African and Arabian tourists/immigrants are widely welcomed in Vietnam, and I don't only speak for myself, but also for hundreds of Vietnamese people that I know. I haven't seen many Arabians or Africans in Vietnam, but those I have met in my country were very lovable. I'm also aware of the fact that not 100% of Africans/Arabians are decent and agreeable, there might be some criminal, fanatic, psychopathic etc individuals, but they happens in every race/nation/country/city /(...) and they are not determined by the colour of skin or the nationality. Having encountered racial attitude, I try never to allow myself to treat people differently because of their skin colour/religion/origin, and I have been succesful in being colour/religion/origin-whatever-crappy-else-that-makes-a-damn-differen ce-blind and I am determined to keep things that way. The only thing I am prejudiced to is human foolishness, as it is the reason of every shyt* in this world.
enkiduThreads: 18
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 Sep 2, 10, 22:16    #163
Mrs F
Let's summarize the facts included in your posts.
Two informations:

1) The Vietnam citizens are thoroughly checked on their arrival in Poland.
It is a customs officers duty, isn't it?
If you have got nothing to hide, there is nothing to be afraid of, right?
Unless, of course, you are traveling on the poorly faked papers with some contraband in you luggage. Obviously - even if you are innocent - there are a lot of your countryman that had tried to be sneaky. Blame them, not the officers. The officers are just doing their job. They are not racists. They are just learned their lesson about the arrivals from Vietnam. I would call it a "professionalism".

2) The bribes. There is no other proofs than your words. Hundreds of thousands of passengers had arrived in Poland, but you are the only one that been asked for a bribe. And the officers asked you for it and explained the situation. They are freely and openly admited that they want a bribe from you. I wonder in which language they said it? Vietnamese? Polish? English? Or maybe it is your imaginary language, heh?

You are lucky, because if that would be up to me, I would never let to arrive to any person, who would call a Poland a sh***y place. I would ask you politely but firmly to get back to Vietnam - the rose garden. And to stay there.
pgtxThreads: 48
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 Sep 2, 10, 22:19    #164
enkidu:
Hundreds of thousands of passengers had arrived in Poland, but you are the only one that been asked for a bribe.

where is your proof that the rest of the people haven't been asked for a bribe? :)
enkiduThreads: 18
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 Sep 2, 10, 22:29    #165
pgtx:
where is your proof that the rest of the people haven't been asked for a bribe? :)


The officers are innocent unless proven guilty. You shall know that.
pgtxThreads: 48
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 Sep 2, 10, 22:39    #166
enkidu:
The officers are innocent unless proven guilty. You shall know that.

everybody knows that there is nothing easier then bribe a cop in Poland... are you getting the connection?
enkiduThreads: 18
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 Sep 2, 10, 22:47    #167
pgtx:
everybody knows that there is nothing easier then bribe a cop in Poland... are you getting the connection?


What kind of an argument is that - "Everybody knows"?
In XIV century everybody knows for sure that the Earth is definitely flat.
But no one actually seen it.

Bollocks and children tales.
pgtxThreads: 48
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 Sep 2, 10, 22:50    #168
enkidu:
What kind of an argument is that - "Everybody knows"?

well, if you didn't know it, you know now... and you're welcome, be careful while driving...
Mrs F  Sep 3, 10, 08:55    #169
enkidu:
1) The Vietnam citizens are thoroughly checked on their arrival in Poland.
It is a customs officers duty, isn't it?
If you have got nothing to hide, there is nothing to be afraid of, right?
Unless, of course, you are traveling on the poorly faked papers with some contraband in you luggage. Obviously - even if you are innocent - there are a lot of your countryman that had tried to be sneaky. Blame them, not the officers. The officers are just doing their job. They are not racists. They are just learned their lesson about the arrivals from Vietnam. I would call it a "professionalism".

2) The bribes. There is no other proofs than your words. Hundreds of thousands of passengers had arrived in Poland, but you are the only one that been asked for a bribe. And the officers asked you for it and explained the situation. They are freely and openly admited that they want a bribe from you. I wonder in which language they said it? Vietnamese? Polish? English? Or maybe it is your imaginary language, heh?

You are lucky, because if that would be up to me, I would never let to arrive to any person, who would call a Poland a sh***y place. I would ask you politely but firmly to get back to Vietnam - the rose garden. And to stay there.


Your ideal imagination of Polish customs officer is indeed touching. Let me explain it to you -
if an white person is let free to go, but any Asian is spotted from 1km and then stopped (how can you tell at first look that we are Vietnamese? Isn't it widely known that vast majority of white people have trouble in differing one Asian from another? Or maybe it is Polish customs officers sixth sense - in that case they seem to be more complicated than I have dared to think of them. Or maybe you can tell at a one second lasting glance who is Vietnamese, Japan, Korean- then you should definitely report your estraordinary abilities to Guiness committee.I'm sure you'll be the first one, dear boy).Undoubtedly, there are many Russian, Belorussian, Ukrainian immigrants/refugees who stay illegaly in Poland, but Polish customs officers aren't willing to single out every white person or even Slavian-looking one. Isn't that a bit ... discriminative? (It is a purely rhetorical question, because I'm sure you will deny every fact you are uncomfortable with). If I have been travelling on poorely faked papers British customs officers wouldn't let me pass the border as I have been travelling to Poland from UK. I am sure they would spot the fake documents, as they have more experience with immigrants than Polish customs- and again - how many Poles are there in UK? a million? ). There is no one stupid enough to cross borders illegally, travelling via plane and having to pass through customs, presenting false documents to officers-even the dumbiest ones. If they want to enter illegally to a country, they choose a green border. Therefore you would expect from Polish customs officers stationing at the borders with Ukraine, Belarus, Russian Federation to be well-trained in recognising suspicious transports carrying illegal passangers, but they don't seem to be so professional, as nowadays there are still some illegal Vietnamese ( I don't claim it is a positive thing, though, it's just a fact)

The backhands were asked by a Polish customs officers in a muted tone, and when my Grandma, who was close to fainting, was obliged to handle them money ( if otherwise she would have fainted), they said "Please turn to the right, so the cameras wouldn't record it". The words coming from Polish customs officers' oral cavity were in Polish language. I happen to understand it, because of my older half-British-half-Polish ex-bf, who theached me many things, including Polish language. He is dead now. No, just kidding.

I have never called (and I will never do Poland a sh1ty place- please if you want to argue with me or insult me in any way, read my previous posts with understanding or do at least try to invent some new inspiring bright way to insult me, intellectually challenge me or whatever else that is not so cliche. Although I do realise this would be hard for you to fulfill.
At least don't pick random facts from my posts and make a collage of what I never mentioned to say.

Vietnam is beautiful. But there are more orchids, adeniums, lotuses and other tropical flowers and plants than roses. You can visit Vietnam, but pray not to meet me - with your level of intellect who knows what damage I will do just of plain boredom.
AmathystThreads: 30
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 Sep 3, 10, 09:37    #170
Mrs F:
it will be easy to find any reason to deport him/her. And if those deported people choose to continue their -now illegal- stay in Poland, they won't be able to benefit from ie health service, assurances or public schools, universities. So don't be surprised that so many Vietnamese keep their racially unjust encounters with Polish customs officers in silence.


I dont want to seem to be pointing out the obvious, but are they not breaking the law if they are illegal? Whilst I appreciate you say your country is having an economic boom, this probably doesnt reach the villages where people are still dirt poor (this is an expression not an insult) - on a weekly basis considerable amounts of Chinese nationals (aparently China is booming too) and Vietnamese nationals try to get into Britain (via France in lorries with plastic bags over there heads to try to evade the CO2 detectors) - I think you might have taken them doing their job properly (actually checking you have the correct papers) as an insult, I also find it hard to believe that they tried to extort money from your grandmother, maybe she just missunderstood (I understand that this kind of thing is common in certain other countries, yours to name one).

The unfortunate thing is whilst nationals of certain countires try to enter certain other countries illegally, all those from these countries will be penialised - it just so happens that these people have a different skin tone.

mafketis:
That's not gonna happen. At most the country can set up rational limits, try to enforce them, not hand out welfare for immigrants and take a zero-tolerance attitude toward crime - convicted and you're shipped back to your own country, even if it's a very bad place.


Even with no benefits they would still arrive - let's face it some countries are poor (In the real sense of the word) and people will always try to escape that, no matter the costs or risks and whilst Mrs F says her country is having an economic boom, as I have already stated, this is only for a tiny minority the rest are still living in standards well below what is considered acceptable in this day and age.
Mrs F  Sep 3, 10, 10:42    #171
Amathyst:
Whilst I appreciate you say your country is having an economic boom, this probably doesnt reach the villages where people are still dirt poor (this is an expression not an insult)


True, nowadays the economical boom is for the moment limited to larger cities and people who have a capital enabling them to invest/multiple their money, whereas in remote areas people are able to get a loan capital, but there are also cases when, instead of waiting for a result of a laborious investment, they choose an easier way - entering a country illegally and profiting from western europe's economical advantages.

Amathyst:
on a weekly basis considerable amounts of Chinese nationals (aparently China is booming too) and Vietnamese nationals try to get into Britain (via France in lorries with plastic bags over there heads to try to evade the CO2 detectors) - I think you might have taken them doing their job properly (actually checking you have the correct papers)


Deducting from your words, they must've had acces to France by obtaining a visa, probably Schengen one- if so, it would be illegal for them to enter UK. Personally, I had a visa to UK, still, it wasn't enough for Polish customs officers. Next time please tell them it is naughty and useless to enter illegaly one country if you already have an access to the other, that isn't economically worse. And what an absurd - covering a head with a plastic bag? Either you suffocate or CO2 spreads around, therefore gase diffusion would raised an alarm within max. 5 minutes. Unless the temperature was -273 C, but in that case those people would be dead anyway. So change the CO2 detectors or close the border, whatever makes you satisfied.

Amathyst:
as an insult, I also find it hard to believe that they tried to extort money from your grandmother, maybe she just missunderstood (I understand that this kind of thing is common in certain other countries, yours to name one).


Believe whatever you want, after all everyone is theoretically supposed to have one's own brain. But it is sufficient to me that UN, AI and European Commission agencies, Anti-Racism Alliances, Action Groups trust my words, and I hope it will change the current situation.

Amathyst:
I understand that this kind of thing is common in certain other countries, yours to name one)


Please name one country that is not troubled with corruption. Only one - and it shall be called a miracle.

Amathyst:
The unfortunate thing is whilst nationals of certain countires try to enter certain other countries illegally, all those from these countries will be penialised - it just so happens that these people have a different skin tone.


Are you colour-blinded too? Congrats! It is nice thing to say that Ukrainian, Belarusian and Russian immigrants are considered equal with Asians.
Mrs F  Sep 3, 10, 10:53    #172
Amathyst:
aparently China is booming too


www . guardian.co.uk/business/2010/aug/16/chinese-economic-boom

Yes it does.
jarnowaThreads: 5
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 Sep 3, 10, 21:35    #173
Mrs F.
If i would think so negatively about the country i live in, i would pack my bags and leave.
You think it's respectful to talk sh#t about the country you choose to live in?

The simple fact that nonwhites are more likely to carry a falsified passport justifies that they are more likely to be selected for a thorough inspection of their documents and luggage.

If you don't like it, go back to where you come from.
ZIMMYThreads: 10
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 Sep 4, 10, 03:34    #174
pauls:
Oh dear! They thought I traveled on a false passport, and brought a magnifier to study the photo for 30 minutes! The man studying the passport had to rub his eyes many times but still would not let me go. I had to watch this clown activity 'amusingly' for 30 minutes.

The suspicion was clearly based on nothing other than racism


That customs guy was none other than my cousin Zoopie Zaleski. I've already talked to him about this 'incident' and he promised to never check another Chinese passport again. But he wouldn't budge when it came to the Japanese.

Ironically, he met a young woman from Hangzhou, China. She was riding a bike in Radom and accidentally ran into him knocking him over. She got off her bike, bent down to help him; caressed his neck in a very caring manner and ......and......and they got married 2 weeks later.
AmathystThreads: 30
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 Sep 4, 10, 04:14    #175
Mrs F:
And what an absurd - covering a head with a plastic bag? Either you suffocate or CO2 spreads around, therefore gase diffusion would raised an alarm within max. 5 minutes. Unless the temperature was -273 C, but in that case those people would be dead anyway. So change the CO2 detectors or close the border, whatever makes you satisfied.


Do you want Youtube footage of them caputuring your countrymen? google UK Border Agency..Vietnamese, and see for yourself...It must be nice in that land you live in..these people will do whatever it takes to get to my island..

http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/road-freight-crime/stowaways/

sroll down!

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=UK+Border+agency+catch+Vietname se+in+lorries&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Click on at your leisure! and then tell me, do we have a duty to ensure that our countries must be protected from illegal immigrants, Im sure your country feels the same?


Mrs F:
Deducting from your words, they must've had acces to France by obtaining a visa,


(people trafficing)

We both know that this isnt true, all found in lorrys have no documents whatsover - or did they just lose them?

Mrs F:
Believe whatever you want, after all everyone is theoretically supposed to have one's own brain. But it is sufficient to me that UN, AI and European Commission agencies, Anti-Racism Alliances, Action Groups trust my words, and I hope it will change the current situation.


Fine words...But please Mrs F...Where does your country rank where human rights are concerned? Or do you want me to remind you?

What gets me is people like you, yes I did say "you"...expect the rest of the world to give you what you dont get at home.

Put your owe house in order and then...maybe then I will respect your posts..Until then..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Vietnam

Mrs F:
Please name one country that is not troubled with corruption. Only one - and it shall be called a miracle.


In my country all children go to school and all people no matter their circumstances are treated in hospital..no payments needed..can you say the same? Its all about the level of corruption and how it affects the common person...

Mrs F:
Are you colour-blinded too? Congrats! It is nice thing to say that Ukrainian, Belarusian and Russian immigrants are considered equal with Asians.


We deport them if they dont have the correct papers...(In the UK)...Immigration is immigration..Immigrants are Immigrants regardless of colour in the UK..But lets just say 3rd word nationls are more prone to breaking immigration laws.

BTW one of my best friends in childhood was Vietnamese..but one person does not make nation so I not going to say..I love all Vietnamese people...

You sound like you had a bad experience..either carry it or off load it...
Mrs F  Sep 4, 10, 09:31    #176
Amathyst:
You sound like you had a bad experience..either carry it or off load it...


If racial discrimination was restricted to my humble person, I would't trouble myself warning people about the situation in Polish customs officers. But it is widely known amongst Vietnamese minority living in Poland, that they will be singled out if they pass Polish customs. I can't stand racist attitude of Polish customs officers towards Asians, you may call it an irrational whim:

Amathyst:
What gets me is people like you, yes I did say "you"...expect the rest of the world to give you what you dont get at home.

Put your owe house in order and then...maybe then I will respect your posts..Until then..


but if racial attitude isn't bottled up, then in close future it will get out of control.
Vietnamese customs officers don't display racist attitude.

Every injustice in the world must be rid off, people must act within their possibilities.
Whilst agreeing with racial discrimination in Polish customs, you choose to critisize my country. Of course it struggles with some problems, but since you are closer to political scandals in your own country, start with fixing and pointing at them first.

Noble idea of getting respect from you rest at the bottom of my vital needs.

Amathyst:
BTW one of my best friends in childhood was Vietnamese..but one person does not make nation so I not going to say..I love all Vietnamese people...


A three-year-old sniffer Collie dog called Buddy, exposed 10 male clandestines hiding in a truck load of tyres heading for Basildon.

The men from Iran, Iraq and Vietnam were sniffed out at Calais and the UK Border Agency (UKBA) handed them over to the French authorities.

The Polish trucker and his employer now each face a civil penalty of up to £2,000 per stowaway if they are found not to have taken adequate steps to secure the load.

A three-year-old sniffer Collie dog called Buddy, exposed 10 male clandestines hiding in a truck load of tyres heading for Basildon.

The men from Iran, Iraq and Vietnam were sniffed out at Calais and the UK Border Agency (UKBA) handed them over to the French authorities.

The Polish trucker and his employer now each face a civil penalty of up to £2,000 per stowaway if they are found not to have taken adequate steps to secure the load.

Lets not be afraid of statistical conclusions :
10 men divided by three nationalities equals 3,(3).
Yes, you are definitely not judging a nation upon its several citizens.

Amathyst:
It must be nice in that land you live in..these people will do whatever it takes to get to my island..


I'm getting tired of repeating myself :
Mrs F:
nowadays the economical boom is for the moment limited to larger cities and people who have a capital enabling them to invest/multiple their money, whereas in remote areas people are able to get a loan capital, but there are also cases when, instead of waiting for a result of a laborious investment, they choose an easier way - entering a country illegally and profiting from western europe's economical advantages.


And a tiny detail - it is not only your island/country. Unless I am honoured to speak with UK's spokeswoman.

Amathyst:
and then tell me, do we have a duty to ensure that our countries must be protected from illegal immigrants, Im sure your country feels the same?


Now you became Europe's spokeswoman. Wow, what a staggering career it is!

There are immigrants form Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar entering Vietnam. Again - I'm not expressing an opinion, it's a pure fact.

Amathyst:
(people trafficing)

We both know that this isnt true, all found in lorrys have no documents whatsover - or did they just lose them?


I'm not familiar with means people choose to enter illegally into any country, as I don't have to use them to visit ie UK. If you are unsatisfied with situation on UK's borders, join UK Border Force.

Amathyst:
In my country all children go to school and all people no matter their circumstances are treated in hospital..no payments needed..can you say the same? Its all about the level of corruption and how it affects the common person...


Generalization again. What an idealistic approach - tax is not money.
In Vietnam 90% of children go to school. Education is one of the most important issues in Vietnamese families.
Health service probably isn't Vietnam's ace, but please educate me - how many Polish nurses and doctors work in British hospitals?

Amathyst:
Immigrants are Immigrants regardless of colour in the UK..But lets just say 3rd word nationls are more prone to breaking immigration laws.


How many Polish people obtained a visa to US and have chosen to stay for a longer perion of time, let say 20 years?

From tomorrow I'm going to participate in a scietific conference. Absence of my response won't mean absense of arguments.
Mrs F  Sep 4, 10, 11:28    #177
Amathyst:
on a weekly basis considerable amounts of Chinese nationals (aparently China is booming too) and Vietnamese nationals try to get into Britain (via France in lorries with plastic bags over there heads to try to evade the CO2 detectors)


[quotation] The exact number of migrants who have suffocated whilst in transit, trying to enter the UK, is unknown. Aside from incidents where there are mass casualties - such as the suffocation of fifty-eight Chinese people in a van entering Dover in 2000 - there is little interest from the mainstream media. But a Vietnamese family who are filmed with plastic bags tied over their heads, in a desperate attempt to avoid the carbon dioxide probes, may well have come dangerously close to adding to this number. 'I personally don't have an opinion whilst at work as to the reasons they are coming', one immigration officer remarks. It is a view that UK Border Force follows fastidiously. [/quotation]

So they do suffocate.
Provide me with a credible source stating that every week there are Vietnamese people, actually successful in entering UK illegally. I don't applaud those who break the immigration law, but what seem to attract them is the UK's social fund. Try lobbying UK's goverment, maybe this will help you chill out.
Mrs F  Sep 4, 10, 11:35    #178
Amathyst

So we are told that of the 5,000 trucks a day that pass through Calais, three-quarters of them are checked for people. We are told that by doing so 12,000 people were prevented from entering the UK in 2007. But at no point does the programme seriously question the terrible conditions in the makeshift camps dotted around the port in which those who are desperate to enter exist. 'If you don't catch them you don't feel like your doing your job', one immigration officer explains. And considerable time is spent showing them 'doing their job'.

Check remaining one quarter yourself. That is merely 1250 lorries. This should make you feel fulfilled.
AmathystThreads: 30
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 Sep 22, 10, 00:07    #179
Mrs F:
Generalization again. What an idealistic approach - tax is not money.



Sweetie, tax enables 100% of children to go to school in the UK...This none existent "money" pays for teachers and schools..so evidently tax is money...People from your side of the world just dont understand thats why you dont want pay it and thats why nothing gets done and you still have 10% of kids that have no education..3rd world and will never change because of your repulsive attitude..


Mrs F:
In Vietnam 90% of children go to school.


Good for you..In the UK its 100% and the rest of Europe and North and South America...Be ashamed... you have children that cant even read or write!...the worst thing is, you seem to think its okay...Worst thing is they try to escape and end up in Europe and abused! But elitists like you dont care!
Plastic Pole52Threads: -
Posts: 112
Joined: Sep 18, 10
Edited by: Plastic Pole52  Sep 22, 10, 00:44    #180
Amathyst:
Good for you..In the UK its 100% and the rest of Europe and North and South America

You are wrong.We have freedom here in the US.Going to school is not mandatory .As a parent you can choose to educate your children at home and some do.

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