My (short) Polish expereinces - bad luck?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 31, 10, 00:46 #91
Well, you edited so you were obviously confident of your changes, so ok ;) I don't think the OP's anthem for Poland will be Shiny Happy People by REM ;)

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Aug 31, 10, 11:00 #92
zetigrek: Take your sick believes about what sexism is back to Ireland... bollox. there is no machismo in polish culture. LOL. Well done. In one post you have managed to demonstrate 2 of my original observations: a comment with racist undertones and the old belief that Poland is great and has no negatives. You managed to even make some questionable "Balkan" type comment further on ... unreal.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Aug 31, 10, 11:23 #93

Teffle:

I mentioned a vague sexism - old fashioned manners/chivalry that spilled over into patronisation and machismo some of the time.

E.g. my wife being repeatedly ignored when the glasses were being filled around the table - general deference to the male (i.e. me) for decision making and expecting me to answer for my wife.

Is your wife Irish? Some of the Irish ladies ive met do enjoy getting absolutely hammered along with the men ive noticed, also were you knocking shots of vodka? Its considered unlady like for women to drink shots of vodka in Poland and i agree. Most of them just cant handle it anyway.

Polish men and (English men) married to Polish women generally get hammered at get togethers especially weddings and christenings. The women complain about how much the men drink and the men just keep drinking - so it is written so shall it be.

As for machismo, ive never noticed that at all.

mafketisThreads: 15 Posts: 1,830 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Aug 31, 10, 11:25 #94
Teffle: a comment with racist undertones Since when do Polish and Irish people belong to different races? Update your vocabulary please.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Aug 31, 10, 11:38 #95
mafketis: Since when do Polish and Irish people belong to different races? You know exactly what I mean. mafketis: Update your vocabulary please No thanks, not necessary. As for the "unladylike" comments form mafketis? well, I rest my case.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Aug 31, 10, 12:01 #96
Sorry, that last comment was from wroclawboy, not mafketis.

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Aug 31, 10, 12:26 #97

Teffle:

I mentioned a vague sexism - old fashioned manners/chivalry that spilled over into patronisation and machismo some of the time.

E.g. my wife being repeatedly ignored when the glasses were being filled around the table - general deference to the male (i.e. me) for decision making and expecting me to answer for my wife.

Noticed quite a few older males kind of "rationing" their wives alcohol intake - often the women didn't get their own drink and were kind of given a little from time to time from their men.

I can see that. It is not socially accepted that women in Poland would drink as much as men, therefore they are not served as often, many refuse when they are served because they don't want to be seen as drinkers- it is not womanly.

zetigrek:

Daniel Libeskind (now).

that is off the table as well and off the topic.

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Aug 31, 10, 12:36 #98

Teffle:

You know exactly what I mean.

No, I don't. It's not that I think there's a shortage of general intolerance in Poland (though it seems worse than it is imho) but I'm sick of 'racist' being used anytime somebody doesn't like someone else. It's not like there's a shortage of acceptable words to describe what you want (starting with xenophobic).

And, the drinking thing sounds seriously weird and not very Polish. Polish women do drink socially though they might be a bit more discreet about it than men. On the other hand, they often issue disclaimers about how they never drink, but maybe they'll have a sip this one time before downing a massive shot of vodka like a pro. I think that was just the people you were with.

I do think a woman showing obvious and open pleasure (and anticipation of) a good stiff drink is going to raise eyebrows (and the assumption that she has a problem and shouldn't be indulged).

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Edited by: jeden Aug 31, 10, 12:43 #99

teffle

LOL. Well done. In one post you have managed to demonstrate 2 of my original observations: a comment with racist undertones and the old belief that Poland is great and has no negatives.

could you bold this part wchi is racist and the other wchis suppose to show belief that Poland is great and has no negatives. ??

IMO she only show you that this kind of sexism wchich you noticed in Poland is proper way of treating real woman by real gentleman

BolleThreads: 3 Posts: 226 Joined: Apr 29, 10 ♂	Aug 31, 10, 12:51 #100
mafketis: basically Poland in Polish is a lot more interesting and fun than Poland in English. This ^^ You have to speak polish in order to fully experience poland - otherwise you are on the sidelines. I've noticed that the more my polish improves, the more i enjoy living here.

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Edited by: Teffle Aug 31, 10, 12:53 #101

Jeden, I quoted two sentences and they are both short - I don't need to bold both quotes do I?

For racist replace xenophobic.

(Fair enough mafketis - but don't tell me you didn't know what I meant)

If you don't think a suggestion that you take xyz back to [named country] has xenophobic undertones then it's worse than I thought.

I don't see how there is any other way to read the assertion that "there is no machismo in Poland" as being blindly jingoistic - not to mention utterly illogical.

I do think a woman showing obvious and open pleasure (and anticipation of) a good stiff drink is going to raise eyebrows (and the assumption that she has a problem and shouldn't be indulged).

I agree but it's not what I was describing. Also, the above should apply to men too anyway IMO.

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Aug 31, 10, 13:00 #102

teffle

Jeden, I quoted two sentences and they are both short - I don't need to bold both quotes do I?

For racist replace xenophobic.

(Fair enough mafketis - but don't tell me you didn't know what I meant)

If you don't think a suggestion that you take xyz back to [named country] has xenophobic undertones then it's worse than I thought.

I don't see how there is any other way to read the assertion that "there is no machismo in Poland" as being blindly jingoistic - not to mention utterly illogical.

So is worse than you thought. She simply doeasnt`t want be trated like irish girls by irish men, If You find our gentlmen way of act toward women as sexist.

There is other way... There is no machismo in Poland is a true statemant.

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Edited by: zetigrek Aug 31, 10, 13:06 #103

Teffle:

LOL. Well done. In one post you have managed to demonstrate 2 of my original observations: a comment with racist undertones and the old belief that Poland is great and has no negatives.

first: have you have read my previouse comment? so how can you say that I have an idealized view of my country???

second: you are new here and don't know who user "southern" is. So please refrain from any conclusions, ok?

third: I don't offend any Irish ppl... it you call it rasism, wow then no wonder that you see it everywhere...

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Edited by: Teffle Aug 31, 10, 13:10 #104

jeden:

So is worse than you thought. She simply doeasnt`t want be trated like irish girls by irish men, If You find our gentlmen way of act toward women as sexist.

There is other way... There is no machismo in Poland is a true statemant.

I'm sorry, but I don't actually know what you are talking about.

third: I don't offend any Irish ppl... it you call it rasism, wow then no wonder that you see it everywhere

So, are you honestly telling me If I told you "take your beliefs back to Poland" that you would not consider the remark to be motivated by xenophobia?

What about if I told a black person to "take their customs back to Africa" - just a normal statement with no implications or undertones - right?

I don't think so.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,710 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Aug 31, 10, 13:12 #105
Teffle: You know exactly what I mean. Then Mr.Irish from land of tolerence, better search carefully this forum to find out how many "racist" comments me as PoleI must bear. Check RevokeNice yout fellow countryman comments

jedenThreads: - Posts: 297 Joined: Nov 30, 09 ♂	Aug 31, 10, 13:13 #106
If you don't think a suggestion that you take xyz back to [named country] has xenophobic undertones then it's worse than I thought So is worse than you thought now?

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Edited by: zetigrek Aug 31, 10, 13:17 #107

Teffle:

I'm sorry, but I don't actually know what you are talking about.

YOU DO KNOW.
In Poland a men who don't let the women walk first through the door are the worst louts and boors. No complex-ridden feminist will tell me there something wrong with good manners! I support some statements of feminism movement, but the whole bable about traditional good manners being wrong is bullsh1t and absurd derived from very deep complex of some women. I'm not a complex ridden women so I don't have problems when a man tries to be polite.
In Ireland maybe you have different values but sorry its Poland, and such behavout IS NOT SEXISM. I'm a women and I know better than you!

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Edited by: Teffle Aug 31, 10, 13:21 #108

zetigrek:

Then Mr.Irish from land of tolerence, better search carefully this forum to find out how many "racist" comments me as PoleI must bear. Check RevokeNice yout fellow countryman comments

Getting a little worked up there are you?

No thanks, I won't be bothering to search the posts of other members - but at the same time, I have never attempted to deny that there is intolerance/xenophobia in Ireland either.

I can't take someone who tells me to "take my sick beliefs back to Ireland" and who denies that there is any machismo in Poland whatsoever too seriously anyway.

In Poland a men who don't let the women walk first through the door are the worst louts and boors. No complex-ridden feminist will tell me there something wrong with good manners!

Now who is jumping to conclusions? When have I ever said that I have any issue or problem with anything anything like this?

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Edited by: zetigrek Aug 31, 10, 13:23 #109

PS
I have nothing against Irish ppl, and it's only you who can find my comment racist or xenophobic. It means that you have really big problem with yourself and I'm not suprised that yout friends who were traveling with you, discovering that, change their attitude to you.

I'm sorry that your wife felt offended but its not a traditional thing to limit women amount of alcohol by a men. I have no idea why this ppl were doing that (or whether they were really doing that) but in family we ask every person who'd like to drink one more shot separately without gender recognision.

Please stop spreading the wrong and untrue statements of sexism in my country, ok?

Teffle:

No thanks, I won't be bothering to search the posts of other members - but at the same time, I have never attempted to deny that there is no intolerance/xenophobia in Ireland either.

me neither. But certainly not towards Irish. I feel deeply ofended that you tried to manipulate my comment by suggesting it's racist.

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Edited by: tow_stalin Aug 31, 10, 13:24 #110

Teffle:

Aesthetically, generally bleak soulless and depressing atmosphere.

try disneyland then:)

p.s1. if don't like poland, don't come here, that's easy.

p.s2. i hope that no one will compel you to come here again :)

p.s3. it's still amazing for me that some people from other countries aren't tolerant at all. they are expecting everything to be in line with their expectations, and when it comes to reality, they are very disappointed. such a children's behavior...

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,710 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Edited by: zetigrek Aug 31, 10, 13:28 #111
Teffle: So, are you honestly telling me If I told you "take your beliefs back to Poland" that you would not consider the remark to be motivated by xenophobia? yes. If you had been an amercan/french/japanese/martian I would have told you the same thing

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 31, 10, 13:29 #112
The man made observations and is sharing them. What's the problem with that? A forum is to discuss them and, if necessary, to validate or debunk them. We may never fully prove or disprove any given point but the beauty lies in their discussion.

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Edited by: zetigrek Aug 31, 10, 13:57 #113

FUZZYWICKETS:

sure. right after I learn you english grammar and spelling.

i NEVER critique people for their english if they're a non-native, but you simply asked for it.

it was tongue in cheek, relax :)

First you need to mark the extract you want to quote, then you push the quote button on right side of user name. And that's it! I also had problems with that at the begging but I eventually got the solution by accident ;)

king polkakamonThreads: 1 Posts: 1,018 Joined: Dec 30, 09 ♂	Aug 31, 10, 15:15 #114
zetigrek: second: you are new here and don't know who user "southern" is. Again me?I must have made an impression.

aphrodisiacThreads: 19 Posts: 3,907 Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀	Aug 31, 10, 15:20 #115
Seanus: The man made observations and is sharing them. What's the problem with that? A forum is to discuss them and, if necessary, to validate or debunk them. We may never fully prove or disprove any given point but the beauty lies in their discussion. right on, but some people get offended. Observations are observations and I think that OP made some really good points.

king polkakamonThreads: 1 Posts: 1,018 Joined: Dec 30, 09 ♂	Aug 31, 10, 15:23 #116
Wroclaw Boy: As for machismo, ive never noticed that at all. jeden: There is no machismo in Poland is a true statemant. There is and there is not machismo in Poland at the same time.Dresiarz look like Serbs but most polish look intellectual.

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Edited by: Teffle Aug 31, 10, 15:24 #117

tow_stalin:

p.s1. if don't like poland, don't come here, that's easy.

Oh don't worry about that ; )

p.s2. i hope that no one will compel you to come here again :)

I would say morally obliged - but no, it won't happen again either.

p.s3. it's still amazing for me that some people from other countries aren't tolerant at all. they are expecting everything to be in line with their expectations, and when it comes to reality, they are very disappointed. such a children's behavior...

Didn't know what to expect to be honest.

Don't see where intolerance comes into it ?!

I've enjoyed - to a greater or lesser degree - all countries I have visited but because I didn't enjoy Poland I am intolerant and childish.

Right.

OK.

There is quite a prickly element in here isn't there?

right on, but some people get offended. Observations are observations and I think that OP made some really good points

Well Dziękuję!

And apologies if I have offended you or anyone else...

Oh sorry, something I did quite enjoy and should have mentioned more was the food. So, there you go.

king polkakamonThreads: 1 Posts: 1,018 Joined: Dec 30, 09 ♂	Aug 31, 10, 15:26 #118
Teffle: I didn't enjoy Poland What exactly didn't you like in Poland?Didn't you like pierogi?Zywiec?Architecture?Women?I mean what else does a man notice?

aphrodisiacThreads: 19 Posts: 3,907 Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀	Aug 31, 10, 15:33 #119
Teffle: There is quite a prickly element in here isn't there? it appears to be so.

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Edited by: zetigrek Aug 31, 10, 17:03 #120

Teffle really wasn't looking for answer does he had "a bad luck". He just want to confirm his prejudice... Teffle, am I right?

btw. Teffle I've send you a message, it would be polite to reply or just send a pm that you won't reply.
In case you have not read it yet I quote an extract from my message:

Its normal that British and Irish ppl say to Poles: "go back to Poland if you don't like the way of living here" and they see nothing wrong with that. So I see nothing wrong with saying to you what I have said. Double standars? Yes it seems you have double standards...

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