U.S. Missile Base in Poland----Your thoughts?

What we need is someone in Foreign Affairs who can actually understand cultural differences, and not look at other nations as if they were looking at the US.

For example, Bush thought he could go over to Iraq, get rid of Saddam and everyone would worship the US military for helping. Well, that euphoria last all of 5 minutes! Because he and his staff didn't understand the reality of what it would be like trying to unify opposing tribes into a cohesive democracy. My perception on that: doomed plan from the start.

Oil dependence is part two of this calamity.
Lets say that some one did explain this to Bush and Rumsfeld, but they wanted to protect all that US built oil infrastructure anyway, and said "Dang it, we're staying as long as we want. We will get all the oil we can, cause China is putting thousands more cars on the road each day and there will be less for us if we don't get in there and secure our rights!"

Bush and Rumsey probably felt it was worth the bad PR, cause men gotta make the the tough decsions, like the bold brash Texan way!

It was like imposing communism on Poland. ;)




Iraq is Iraq but I must admit that Bush administration have done a lot of good things in eastern europe. Orange revolution in Ukriane, revolution in georgia ...
It is possible that by this way europe is going to have diversified gas and oil supplies. (read will be closer to USA)



From the other hand by their unsuccessful mission, west is introducing new technologies in satisfying time. There are good sides of this whole situation.

By the way, west is going to be strong

(watch begining with David de Rothschild )


Chinese and other developing countries don't have technologies so it will be possible to tax Chinese and Russian goods and talk about ecology. Money west spends on oil will be back home. Ecology will be new tool to rip off poor. Poland has to spend a lot of money but being EU member this aim is much easier.


and yes Bush is an idiot

The very poignant foundation of this thought process is that the majority of Americans, much like some fanatical gun-slinging cowboys of days past, were predominantly behind the Iraq invasion with all their patriotic hearts. Only now the second guessing takes prevalence.

I don’t recall all this opposition to the invasion during its infancy.

Only now the righteous souls emerge on the scene with tales of foreshadowed lunacy.

That's because you weren't sitting with me in my living room when I heard we were declaring war. I was in shock, my jaw on the floor, and well...I won't repeat here the words that I used!

Something else you may not be aware of....in the early days of the war,those of us who were against it endured a lot of criticism. We were looked at as being unpatriotic just because we disagreed about invading Iraq!

It was only after several years passed that others began to also become disenchanted with the war.

Yeah, I can certainly use a dosage of humility :)

On the contrary, I think they new exactly what it would be like.




Many Americans opposed this war before it started.



Yes shopgirl I can well beleive that. It was a tactic that the Nazi's used before WW2 to great effect.

There is a very interesting article, thankfully viewed from a more scientific perspective, on this issue.

It is from this month's edition of Focus magazine in Polish language.

Translated, it states as follows, 'The anti-missile shield, in the nearest future, can not be useful but its cosmic equivalent could be. For what? In order to defend us from the dangers/threats from the cosmos.

Yeah,those darned Go'uld are a nasty bunch...

I Dont Have Much Knowlidje About Subject Like This But For Me i find it Strange What The Polish gouverment/People Will Benifit From Planting U.S. missle defense base in Poland ?!!!!
Who May Think USA Love Poland is wrong Coz There is no Love In Policy Only The Language Of Interest And Benifits So Today Usa Is By Your side But Nothing is sure for Tommorow
Many People Ignore That Its The Usa Who Created The Ghost Of Ben Ladin And Supported Him With Money And Weapons To Face The Russian Influence In Afganistan And Its The Same Country Who Ask The Head Of This Man For Millions Of Dollars
The Same With Saddam Houcine And Thousands of Other Exemples
Let Us Go Back Years Ago 1962 During The Cold War When Some American Plane Ditected Russian Missile Platform In Cuba This Caused Global Crise All The World Put The Hand On The Heart From The Ghost Of Nuclear War, Let Us Immagine If The War Was Started who would Be Burn First ?!! And For Which Raison?!!!
Some People May Say Whats The Relation Between That and This Case ?!!
We Can Take Lessons From History
Usa Is Ready To Make Deal Even With Devil And Burn All The World For its Own benifits It already Making War Everywhere Its Country Who Was Constracted After the Eraditaction Of The Amerindian And Still survive With People's Blood.
Usa Is Great Company Much More Than Great Country
What I Wish For Poland as I Love This Country Is To be Able To Play Much Important Roles Than Only Being Paper In The Usa Hand To Be used As Political Game whenever Usa Wann
Poland Deserve More Important Possition Than This
God Bless This Country (Poland) :)

Russia warns over U.S.-Czech shield

8 July 2008 | 23:11 | Source: BBC
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/world-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=07&dd=08&na v_id=51746

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Czech protest over US missile shield

Last Updated: July 09. 2008 2:01PM UAE / July 9. 2008 10:01AM GMT
http://thenational.ae/article/20080709/FOREIGN/901478727/1042/SPORT


Czech Slavs are right when resisting to USA misslile shield. Go Slavic Czeska!

Slavic resistence against foreign rule grows all over Slavdom, obviously.

Western Europe had no problem with bases and missiles in country during the cold war. The soviet block was just such a great place to live. People were dying to get out, literally. Patton should have done the job after ww2.

Exactly what's your point Adder? I'm confused please.

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We get most of our oil from South America. Maybe the US should stop exporting it's own oil and keep it in country. The US should stop importing oil from everybody. All the other countries can eat their oil. That is the only thing they have.

The only thing driving the price of oil is the speculators in the market. They cry the sky is falling yet you can go to any gas pump at any time and get as much gas as you want. Has anybody ever been turned away for lack of gas. Oil co's keep production low and then say no inventory. The speculators say not enough oil jack the price but everybody can buy gas.

Rumors of war, jack up the price. A hurricane might hit, jack up the price. The CEO of BP farted in his leather chair, jack up the price. All these things have always happened, now in the last 8 years it means something. China is an excuse to raise prices. OPEC says we're pumping enough oil and they are. It is manipulation, theft by deception and we are the fools being hosed.

Yes this is true.. I don't think it's going to happen Crow. People are too smart this time.

[quote=kingkong1]Exactly what's your point Adder? I'm confused please.[/quote-------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------
Too bad if Russia doesn't like a missile base in Poland. If it were me I would accept a base. Living under the iron fist of cccp is no way to live.

If Patton would have attack Russia at the end of ww2 there would not have been a Soviet Block., Berlin Wall, Communist China, N. Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Cuban Missile crisis, The purging/killing of millions of it's own, Cambodia. Indoctrination, etc. Communism has nothing to do with Russia. A twisted mind came out of Russia is all. The funny thing is, everywhere communism is it does not work. Yet they try, try again. Everybody is equally poor and oppressed. Only the leaders live good. That's why I'd put missiles in Poland.

If Russia poses no threat then hell with the missiles but do they. I don't know.

Hi folks.

Not quite, but I like the way you think. FWIW anyone interested, there has been a deal struck and apparently Canada is now buying the yellow cake Uranium possessed by Iraq, for their nuclear power reactors. Good for them, I say.This part I could believe.
Definitely, but not perhaps for the reasons many believe. During the Carter administration treaties were signed agreeing to buy oil from certain countries if they traded their oil in US Dollars; unfortunately at the same time there began a huge push to shut down oil production in the U.S. or make it prohibitively expensive due to environmental and other laws. Typical, the government making a mint off of something it does nothing to produce. Last numbers I saw, the few remaining US oil companies make around 8 cents per gallon, 0.08USD for every 3.8L if you will, in profit; by comparison, in fees, taxes, and such, the government makes almost 80 cents on that same gallon, having done nothing to produce it, and quietly sits back while everyone thinks the oil companies are the bad guys wrt that....
Honestly, US could be self sufficient, but keeps allowing politicians to hamstring production efforts in order to hypothetically save some rare weed that only grows near oil pipelines...tongue in cheek, of course, but it isn't far from the truth. Right now thanks to treaties such as the above and various laws, the US imports over 70 percent of its oil. This number used to be in the single digits before they shut the pumps down.
Honestly, there are a lot of sheep in this country who do not think for themselves. If a celebrity says so, or a news commentator says it by way of an editorial comment, then it must be so! Iraq is not going nearly so bad as everyone seems to think, and fwiw many seem to be altering the reasons for the war's beginnings to suit various political beliefs. While there has been recent evidence supporting Iraqi intelligence involvement in 9/11, that can be believed if you like, it doesn't matter. Iraq had a nuclear program, (they just started sending part of their Uranium to Canada for nuclear power) although how close it actually was to a weapon is something I honestly don't know. Perhaps it already had several, perhaps it was years from one. Those are the sorts of things kept secret for decades. There was also a chem/bio program. Were perhaps some of these weapons originally donated to them by US and Soviet third parties during the 1960's and 70's? perhaps, but times change.

Honestly, I think Saddam's personal bravado and desire to appear as a strongman was his undoing. In a time people were freshly mindful of the possibility of horrible things occurring, he wanted to thumb his nose at UN inspectors and shoot at aircraft enforcing the no-fly zone. Neither were good moves and had he opened up about his programs completely, much earlier, things might have been different.

Iraq will be fine without him, though, and they will be a much more successful and wealthy country when this is all over and all of us can leave there.
I agree, although it would take a few years to regain the capabilities needed to get the oil and refine it, so many have been shut down. Likewise the US no longer has the capability to make Nuclear reactors (such as the ones the French have) thanks to fear mongering here. The Navy has been using nuclear power since the l950's and not a single mishap of note...
Possibly why so many celebrities and newer politicians lean this direction. They call themselves something else, progressives, etc. but their ideologies are identical to the old Soviet model.
So...on another note, Iran just tested its medium range missile, capable of hitting Turkey and just about anywhere in the Middle East-it isn't the one causing concern, however-that one is the model up from it, which could hit much of Europe. That one, however, will likely be saved for a live warshot. Too expensive to use unless they have a lot of them.
Good time to be able to shoot the things down. Between Ahmadinejad and the Russians controlling the oil in Europe, it would be nice to have at least SOME way to at least neutralize the shadow of their nuclear weapons, as well.
Just a thought anyway.

John P.

Got to rush to work hence the brevity of this post but it seems like a bit of historical revisionism is going on here to justify the invasion of Iraq.

Yellowcake Uranium occurs naturally ( Saddam bought his from Niger ) and needs to be processed to do anything, Iraq stopped its nuclear program ( which didn't get far ) before 1991.
Thats 12 years before the invasion.
There is no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991.

codswallop! If Patton had attacked east he would have run out of fuel halfway to Warsaw and been massacred by the RKKA...........Patton was a loon.

When do the people get sick of ongoing threats? Who died and made them boss? Oh that's right Stalin.

Can anyone please tell me how on earth a missile shield in Poland is a defence against Iranian missiles that can barely reach israel?
I mean,you dont even have to get the calipers out on a map to see this is nuts.

Russia threatens military response to US missile defence deal

July 9, 2008
David Charter, Europe Correspondent
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4295309.ece

Exactly, who the hell needs this? And you don't know if they're bluffing or not.

Well, if you want, it's not like Poland has any protection from Russian missiles at the moment, might as well rejoin the ComBloc/Warsaw pact and raise the Hammer and Sickle again. America considers Poland an ally and has not offered any such thing as military force against her. Why is Russia stooping to this level? because Russia is used to her neighboring countries bowing down to her will. What will happen when Russia gets even more control, or turns off the oil during the winter?
Perhaps it is my perspective as an American, but what is wrong with Putin, and why does he worry about anti missile interceptors if his intentions are not questionable?


As for comments about yellow cake, Szkotja you may be right, honestly I have no idea how one would say when the stuff was purchased-however purchase date has nothing to do with intended use for the product. There was lip service paid to the idea of a nuclear power plant in documents uncovered as early as 1987 (but China was thought to be the "salesman" for this technology, not Niger).
Iraq has no nuclear power plants. Nor have any ever been started. What Iraq DID have were weapons specialists and a strong desire (motivated, apparently, by Saddam himself, mostly).
No nuclear plant, plenty of nuclear material, plans for a nuclear plant but no apparent desire to build one, weapons scientists abounding, and well, you be the judge. No smoking gun perhaps, but definitely not smelling innocent and rosy clean, either.
Isthatu, your point is valid only if one assumes the missile *tested* is the best one Iran has. As has been demonstrated before in other conflicts, this is seldom the case. It is interesting also that the particular missile tested (and perhaps its original source) is from a series of missiles, of which the next version up is *quite* capable of reaching Europe. It is hard to believe a nation as sophisticated as Iran (theocracy as it may claim to be) would demonstrate their *best* weapon for everyone to see. It is also difficult for me to believe that a nation unashamedly working to create nuclear weapons (contrary to former reports they stopped some time ago) would buy the medium range version of a missile, and say, "no thanks, we don't want the long ranged one, just the little one, please..." Especially if they suspected possible war with Americans or others. Ability to hit Europe, for a somewhat radical government such as Ahmadinejad's (I do not include Iranians in general here) is a HUGE bargaining stick and a tool for political strongarming on a scale previously impossible for them since the days of the Persian Empire. It would be a poor bet to say he does not have them already.

Just my opinion, of course, disregard if you like, after all, I AM an American. My heritage is Polish, but I feel no brotherhood with Russia at all. I can be friendly, of course, but Poland IMHO owes Russia nothing.
If they want the base and the ability to shoot down Russia's or Iran's nukes, it is offered. The decision is now up to Poland, not Russia. Otherwise the US would have asked Putin, "would you mind if we put a shield in your slave state, Poland?" and waited for his response. Poland does not belong to Russia, so it is not up to Russia.

John P.

We (Slavs) don`t need another sh** as result of foreign interests, in Slavic world.

one of measures of announced military respond?

Russian warships to return to Arctic waters

USA TODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-07-14-russian-warships_N.htm

Nice to see them getting out and about...its not good to stay in all the time watching tv and slobbing about on the sofa....

Crow I understand your mistrust of the west/NATO but, there's no such place as the "slavic world." We all have to share this planet! If we want our offspring to survive into the next millennium, we need to build bridges, not create divissions into Slavic, Muslim, Christian, Jew, black, white etc etc.

Edit:

Or missile "defence" shields!!!

in other words, you mean, we (Slavs and all other people/individuals of this planet) don`t need a freedom?

we need `borg` in the face of USA and EU to solve all our problems?


no, its not nice to sit and just BLA BLA

Serbians, for example, got a lot of moral support from Russia, in last 15 years. You know what i mean

It looks like you missed the point Crow so I'll repeat it for you. There's no such place as the Slavic world. It's everybodies world and we have to share it. That's what I mean by building bridges. We need to accept each other which includes accepting each others differences.

That won't make us borg!

that`s the key word.

when NATO come and occupy Serbian territory on Kosovo-Metohija, in order to create Greter Albania, its not shering. Its conquest

or

when NATO instruct Croatia how to destroy Serbian Krajina, in order to support creation of Greater Croatia, its not shering. Its conquest

Now, what`s the point?

All what was conquered, would be liberated. It’s the principle of action and reaction. That’s the low of nature

Then, we can share, when all of us learn full meaning of word `share`.