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Brits to protest against foreigners in the workforce, including Poles.

TheOther Threads: 7
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  ♂   Edited by: TheOther  Feb 16, 2010, 06:19pm  #

Bratwurst Boy:
Re-unification and common sense...

Hm, only in East Germany or also in West Germany? I had to deal with VERDI once in Hessia in the late 90's, and they were a major, influencial pain in the a*s. That's why I ask. That they've lost some influence over time, as you say, makes sense though.



Bratwurst Boy Threads: 8
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  ♂   Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Feb 16, 2010, 06:20pm  #

TheOther:
Hm, only in East Germany or also in West Germany? I had to deal with VERDI once in Hessia in the late 90's, and they were a major, influencial pain in the a*s. That's why I ask.

Ever heard of Agenda 2010 by Schröder? The home party of the laborers and trade unions, the SPD determined a first class capitalist plan which put the SPD in many things right of the CDU.
Since then many things changed...the boundaries blurred. Today some even say the CDU is more social than the SPD who on the other hand now tries a turn around and fights the Linke!
;)

The good old "trade unions against the gov" just doesn't work in Germany anymore..

TheOther Threads: 7
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  ♂   Edited by: TheOther  Feb 16, 2010, 06:22pm  #

Bratwurst Boy:
Ever heard of Agenda 2000 by Schröder?

No, I didn't live in Germany at that time. Let me read up on it.

Bratwurst Boy:
Today some even say the CDU is more social than the SPD

Whow, then a lot of things have changed in Germany.

TheOther Threads: 7
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  ♂   Feb 16, 2010, 06:28pm  #

Thanks!

Exiled Threads: 5
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  ♂   Feb 16, 2010, 06:29pm  #

So the West gave just 1% of it's income to help the East?Or took loans?

Bratwurst Boy Threads: 8
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  ♂   Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Feb 16, 2010, 06:32pm  #

Exiled:
So the West gave just 1% of it's income to help the East?Or took loans?

All Germans (yes those in the East too) paid for the cost of the re-unification with a tax, the so called "Solidaritätszuschlag" or "Soli" in short.

Now as most people think the East has become as well as the West (inclusive stronger and weaker regions) there are now contemplations to use the Soli for neglected parts in West Germany instead of cancelling the Soli tax altogether.

Exiled Threads: 5
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  ♂   Feb 16, 2010, 06:35pm  #

How big was this tax?Because if it was 50% on former tax living standards would drop substantially.

Bratwurst Boy Threads: 8
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  ♂   Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Feb 16, 2010, 06:37pm  #

Exiled:
How big was this tax?Because if it was 50% on former tax living standards would drop substantially.

5,5 percent of the income tax and till now the Bund got 160 Billion Euro from it to pay for the cost of the re-unification.
(2009 around 13 Billion Euro)

BritishEmpire Threads: -
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  ♂   Feb 17, 2010, 11:21pm  #

Amathyst:
Time to limit foreign students too me thinks why should we educated foreigners and leave our own out in the cold let them study in their own countries!

They have to pay full price and they most likely have a rich mummy and daddy that can give them spending money.
Seanus:
The company has to keep your job open? Prove it, please.

Check working law the UK government has a website and trust me i know, i happen to have a child. Just to back it up look at the top of the page its all there, http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Moneyandworkentitlements/WorkAndFa milies/Pregnancyandmaternityrights/DG_065153
Barney:
You mentioned Evolution and attempted to use it as a reason to oppose migration then softened your stance suggesting that migration could be on an ad hoc basis ie “phone the agency”. This to me demonstrated your misunderstanding of both Evolution and economic policy. Migration (internal and external) doesn’t work that way, people will not permanently move for temporary jobs unless they are young, stupid or have a particular skill they can sell overseas. Then there are the people of independent means. If you wish to discuss evolution start another thread.

More British people move overseas than Eastern Europeans arrive the rest come from the commonwealth. The British birth rate is under 2.1 children per woman. Without migration the population of your country is falling, how do you generate enough to support the ageing population and everything else?

First i said humans have evolved to reject other culture, if they hadn't we wouldn't have different nations and different faiths. There is a difference between rejecting others and hating them as you were implying i meant the same.
Moving on to overseas jobs, no one would expect them to make a permanent move for a temp job but a temp move for a temp job is very normal, why not do a bit of digging and look at all the countries in the world that allow you to work under a permit system and require you to return home after the permit expires.
So onto your point about birth rates, the population falling in the UK is a good thing, the island is over crowded and if left unchecked will soon suffer in so many ways. This has already been pointed out by many experts and covered by many papers, for example http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/minette_marrin/art icle6898174.ece . We don't need immigrants to top that up, this myth that has been spread by the government that we need immigration to look after an ageing population is a load of bulls*** which the pro immi folks like yourself lap up with out question. Lets see if this point hits home for all of you out there that think immigration will solve our issues with an ageing population, who is going to look after the immigrants when they get old????????? its a never ending cycle.

Seanus Threads: 19
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  ♂   Feb 18, 2010, 12:11pm  #

Well, I wasn't aware of that law so thanks for posting it :) Still, law and practice can be 2 very different things.

Barney Threads: 18
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  ♂   Feb 18, 2010, 02:48pm  #

BritishEmpire:
humans have evolved to reject other culture, if they hadn't we wouldn't have different nations and different faiths

Evolution is not driven by the brain check out MRSA, societal evolution depends entirely upon cooperation between groups who have developed a solution to their environment.
Consider the Neanderthal:) they became extinct because they didn’t interact, exchange ideas and so on. The big ladybird book of evolution doesn’t mention this because it’s pitched for children.
The exchange of ideas, trade and so on are essential for the development of societies that means migration.

The demographic problem in a nutshell

Overall economic growth will also be hampered by a decline in the number of new consumers and new households. When developed countries’ labor forces were growing by 0.5 percent to 1.0 percent per year, as they did until 2005, even annual increases in real output per worker of just 1.7 percent meant that annual economic growth totaled 2.2 percent to 2.7 percent per year. But with the labor forces of many developed countries (such as Germany, Hungary, Japan, Russia and the Baltic states) now shrinking by 0.2 percent per year and those of other countries (including Austria, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Greece and Italy) growing by less than 0.2 percent per year, the same 1.7 percent increase in real output per worker yields only 1.5 percent to1.9-percent annual overall growth. Moreover, developed countries will be lucky to keep productivity growth at even that level; in many developed countries, productivity is more likely to decline as the population ages.

Add to that medical costs and it’s difficult to see how the situation can be reversed.

Having people jet in as a solution to the problem is to misunderstand the problem. Monies earned will simply leave the country thus the migrant model you propose will not benefit the country. What you need is the spending power to stay and that means people stay.


BritishEmpire:
the population falling in the UK is a good thing, the island is over crowded

The declining population (without migration) is the wrong kind unless you want a nation of poor pensioners.

Your linked article is an exercise in spiteful, conspiracy nonsense. The author selectively quotes a former government advisor to suggest that there is a secret plan to end Britishness. I cant take that seriously.

Are you against migration in both directions?

convex Threads: 30
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  ♂   Feb 18, 2010, 02:49pm  #

Barney:
The declining population (without migration) is the wrong kind unless you want a nation of poor pensioners.

So the only reason to support growing the population is to support the welfare state? Sounds like a ponzi scheme.

Barney Threads: 18
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  ♂   Feb 18, 2010, 02:54pm  #

convex:
the only reason to support growing the population is to support the welfare state

I didnt say so.
It is however necessary to have an economically sustainable demographic profile.

convex Threads: 30
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  ♂   Feb 18, 2010, 03:07pm  #

Barney:
It is however necessary to have an economically sustainable demographic profile.

Depends, with less people, you can spend more on quality instead of quantity of services. Would you rather have 10 people working mediocre jobs, or 5 working good jobs?

Barney Threads: 18
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  ♂   Feb 18, 2010, 06:40pm  #

convex:
Would you rather have 10 people working mediocre jobs, or 5 working good jobs?

You are missing the point or making a new one.

I dont see how this plan to eradicate the working class can be achieved.

BritishEmpire Threads: -
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  ♂   Feb 18, 2010, 11:57pm  #

Barney:
Consider the Neanderthal:) they became extinct because they didn’t interact

There is much evidence to suggest the opposite.
Barney:
The exchange of ideas, trade and so on are essential for the development of societies that means migration.

Indeed the exchange of ideas e.t.c is important, although its new to me that migration goes hand in hand. I cant remember the rest of the world getting for instance the jet engine and having to have 2 million brits as part of the bargain.
Barney:
Monies earned will simply leave the country thus the migrant model you propose will not benefit the country. What you need is the spending power to stay and that means people stay.

Quite the opposite, jersey and guernsey are a good example of this as its very hard to settle and as such the amount of people that pay tax and NI but dont claim anything against the state is very high because they have gone home before they can claim it.
Barney:
The declining population (without migration) is the wrong kind unless you want a nation of poor pensioners.

There already exists such a situation, its not uncommon for pensioners to die during winter because they cant afford enough heating. Even so instead of swerving the question would you like to tell me what we should do about the immigrants when they grow old?.
Barney:
Your linked article is an exercise in spiteful, conspiracy nonsense.

I like it when people try dismiss something as wrong when it is fact, it shows just how ignorant some people are to the truth and how there attitudes and beliefs tell them what to believe. If you had taken a moment to maybe look for another source of the same story then you would have found many. Why not try everyones favorite place for info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_multiculturalism#United_King dom select UK and have a read ;-)
Barney:
Are you against migration in both directions?

I believe that if someone wants to migrate from the UK they should first of all be welcome by the majority and be able to offer something to the host country (skills) and they should not just dump themselves on another country because they can.
Barney:
I dont see how this plan to eradicate the working class can be achieved.

You have to be a lefty with comments like that, only with communism can you get to a point where people are of the same class.

Steveramsfan Threads: 2
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  ♂   Feb 19, 2010, 12:06am  #

Most move to a more developed country to earn more money. This is just greed.

My gf and her mum live in Poland and have hardly any money, they wont let me give them money when I stay with them every weekend. They don't want to leave Poland, they are happy with their lives in Poland.

While there are free jobs in UK foreign people will come. If there was no welfare state there would be less free jobs for foreign people. Too many people in the UK would rather rely on the welfare state than get a menial job.

Here lies the problem

Barney Threads: 18
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  ♂   Feb 19, 2010, 12:42am  #

BritishEmpire:
You have to be a lefty with comments like that, only with communism....

No a national Socialist and everyone inbetween could have said that.

The rest

Couldnt be arsed but some pointers

Knows nothing about Evolution
Is inconsistent
Wants to change the UK into a Tax pariah state
All immigrants are scroungers
Something about Jet engines and Grannies
Doesn’t like his links being read
Wants to hobble industry with red tape re emigrants

BritishEmpire Threads: -
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  ♂   Feb 25, 2010, 11:37pm  #

Barney:
Socialist

Well last time the world logged on and checked that would have meant you were left wing.
Hence the reason why you jump on anything labour, pro immigrant or anti-british.
Sad really because if you ask me if you don't like british people then you should do like the rest and frigg off because we won't change for you.
Barney:
Knows nothing about Evolution
Is inconsistent
Wants to change the UK into a Tax pariah state
All immigrants are scroungers
Something about Jet engines and Grannies
Doesn’t like his links being read
Wants to hobble industry with red tape re emigrants

You know barn i would bother to argue with you if my mental age had stalled at about 10 which would leave me in a situation that is similar to yours.
As for the rest of your rubbish, if you had bothered looking instead of letting your lefty ideas make your mind up for you then you wouldn't have missed what most people didn't.
So you just keep telling yourself everyone thinks like you, maybe even one day you will believe that.

Barney Threads: 18
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  ♂   Edited by: Barney  Feb 25, 2010, 11:55pm  #

Its too boring

RevokeNice Threads: 23
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  ♂   Feb 26, 2010, 12:24am  #

How many attended the march?

Seanus Threads: 19
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Joined: Dec 25, 2007
  ♂   Feb 26, 2010, 12:35am  #

The main guy who speaks here would be well received. He speaks well of the English and rightly says that some Poles need to lighten up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBzvyJrNzyo&feature=related. Many Poles are eazy-oazy so it's not that bad but some are very uptight.



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Brits to protest against foreigners in the workforce, including Poles.

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