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dual citizenship - US doesn't care if you don't give up Polish passport

f stop Threads: 31
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  ♀   Edited by: Moderator  Mar 7, 2010, 11:17pm  #1

When becoming a US citizen, you are supposed to give up a passport of any other country.
I've been checking around, and US government does not prosecute, or seem to care about those that keep their Polish passport anyway.
But what about that oath you take at the US naturalization ceremony, which starts, and I quote:
"I hereby declare,
on oath,
that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;..."


SeanBM Threads: 42
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  ♂   Edited by: SeanBM  Mar 7, 2010, 11:57pm  #2

f stop:
US naturalization ceremony

Must you do this ceremony to obtain a U.S. passport?

opts Threads: 10
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  ♂   Mar 7, 2010, 11:59pm  #3

No big deal. You can have both passports.

f stop Threads: 31
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  ♀   Edited by: f stop  Mar 8, 2010, 12:03am  #4

SeanBM:
Must you do this ceremony to obtain a U.S. passport?

As far as I know. There is a mention of it in the application that one has to sign already.
opts:
No big deal. You can have both passports.

Yea... but it's an oath. An OATH.

Matowy Threads: -
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 12:06am  #5

f stop:
Yea... but it's an oath. An OATH.

As long as this remains the 21'st Century +, I don't think an oath is going to matter. At all. It's pretty crazy that a modern country like the U.S still does oaths. The Pledge of Allegiance is nothing short of fascist, in my opinion.

convex Threads: 26
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 12:08am  #6

SeanBM:
Must you do this ceremony to obtain a U.S. passport?

yes


There are lots of naturalized dual citizens. Lots of people from the 51st up north, and the 52nd down south... famous people at that.

As an American, you're also legally obliged to give up your US citizenship if you seek out citizenship in another country.

Honestly, I think that naturalized citizens should be required to give up their previous citizenship. That is, do the ceremony, and then have some sort of grace period where the person can renounce their citizenship.

f stop Threads: 31
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  ♀   Edited by: f stop  Mar 8, 2010, 12:09am  #7

Right? Wouldn't be nice if they'd revise it? I would not mind swearing that I'll do my best to represent it well, protect it... I would not mind that at all. But to swear that I give up all allegiance to Poland? That's harsh.

convex Threads: 26
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 12:33am  #8

f stop:
Right? Wouldn't be nice if they'd revise it? I would not mind swearing that I'll do my best to represent it well, protect it... I would not mind that at all. But to swear that I give up all allegiance to Poland? That's harsh.

Why is that harsh? You want citizenship, not just resident alien status. You can do everything that a citizen can do as a resident alien. except vote Why do you want citizenship? Citizenship is a responsibility.

f stop Threads: 31
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  ♀   Mar 8, 2010, 12:41am  #9

Why do I want citizenship? My family is scaring me that if I don't get around to it, I might be loosing my social security and possible health benefits... and whatever else, in the future. So I started looking into it.

convex Threads: 26
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 12:45am  #10

f stop:
I might be loosing my social security and possible health benefits

Bwahahahahahaha.

I lost mine the minute before I left the womb.

f stop Threads: 31
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  ♀   Mar 8, 2010, 12:51am  #11

Very funny.
My mother thinks that the only thing I can count on in my old age will be social security.

plk123 Threads: 15
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 05:30am  #12

f stop:
Why do I want citizenship? My family is scaring me that if I don't get around to it, I might be loosing my social security and possible health benefits... and whatever else, in the future. So I started looking into it.

bs but the rights of aliens are not exactly the same as citizens.. one thing that an alien is not a subject to the long arm of crooked US law but there are benefits too.

f stop Threads: 31
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  ♀   Mar 8, 2010, 05:38am  #13

whenever politicians start on immigrant issues, you hear all kinds of wild proposals to limit the benefits, not only to illegal immigrants, but also for the legal ones.

beelzebub Threads: -
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  ♂   Edited by: beelzebub  Mar 8, 2010, 06:11am  #14

I am amazed at the amount of Polish in the USA...especially considering how much you like to tell us it is substandard for you. Ungrateful twits. Now he is all bent out of shape about pledging allegiance as part of the immigration process. Well guess what skippy...you want to be an American then follow our rules. If not p!ss off.

It's not unreasonable at all and all nations do it. Why shouldn't you have to swear loyalty to a nation when taking it's citizenship? It's not a club card....it comes with very serious civic and social responsibilities. But you aren't interested in all that...you just want to use what you can. You admitted right off it was about losing future financial benefits from the US government.

1jola Threads: 28
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 08:50am  #15

Welcome back PLK123!


fstop,

You should get your citizenship, period. It will not conflict with your Polish citizenship, as we are both friendly nations. I have both, but my mother had only residency in the US and after retirement she received SS even when she had returned to Poland, so it isn't critical for that purpose. It is always good to be a citizen of the country you choose to live in. Do it.

Here is the info where the State Department finds conflict; you will see you have none:

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/policies.html

beelzebub:
I swear the whiniest people on this forum are Polish expats.

There aren't many posts of yours where you are not whining about something Polish, sunshine. Is the wound that deep, our expert on everything bad in Poland?

PolishNutjob Threads: 1
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 09:31am  #16

beelzebub:
Are there even any real Polish males living in Poland ...

Be careful, kind sir.
Juxtaposing "real" and "males" when referencing Polish humans treads dangerously close to creating an oxymoron.

RevokeNice Threads: 23
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 09:43am  #17

f stop:
Right? Wouldn't be nice if they'd revise it? I would not mind swearing that I'll do my best to represent it well, protect it... I would not mind that at all. But to swear that I give up all allegiance to Poland? That's harsh.

Citizenship is a gift, not a right. You want American citizenship, you play by their rules.

1jola Threads: 28
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  ♂   Edited by: 1jola  Mar 8, 2010, 10:50am  #18

She is playing by the rules. She is in the US legaly, works, and pays taxes.

Should she have children, they will then have a choice to study in the US or Europe as citizens. Just thinking ahead.

Also, as she lives on the Space Coast and is an engineer, she might have an opportunity for a better job requiring US citizenship and a security clearance. Secret clearance is not granted to resident aliens.

convex Threads: 26
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  ♂   Edited by: convex  Mar 8, 2010, 11:17am  #19

1jola:
She is playing by the rules. She is in the US legaly, works, and pays taxes.

The rules are, if she wants to become an American citizen, she has to renounce her allegiance to any other states. That is what citizenship implies.

1jola:
Secret clearance is not granted to resident aliens.

Nor is it usually granted to naturalized citizens who still hold citizenship of a foreign country.

They complain enough about US citizens having lived in foreign countries, good luck on trying to get it as a naturalized citizen. You might want to have a back up job, because you'll be waiting a long ass time to get it.

beelzebub:
Yet you keep replying. You are the one using my nation for benefits and you have the nerve to say anything to me?

When someone has busted their ass paying into a scam like social security, they deserve to get every penny back out of it.

Matowy Threads: -
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 11:28am  #20

convex:
The rules are, if she wants to become an American citizen, she has to renounce her allegiance to any other states. That is what citizenship implies.

That doesn't necessarily mean renounce citizenship, though, does it? I was under the impression this oath of allegiance is just some glittery tradition designed to give a warm fuzzy feeling inside, like most American traditions.

1jola Threads: 28
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 11:34am  #21

convex:
Nor is it usually granted to naturalized citizens who still hold citizenship of a foreign country.

They complain enough about US citizens having lived in foreign countries, good luck on trying to get it as a naturalized citizen. You might want to have a back up job, because you'll be waiting a long ass time to get it.

As a Polish and a naturalized American citizen I had no problems getting clearances. Several of them. They do check your background and your parents' also in the case of communist blok emigrants. There were benefits for not joining the communist filth after all.

King Sobieski Threads: 6
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 11:34am  #22

Matowy:
some glittery tradition designed to give a warm fuzzy feeling inside, like most American traditions.

thanksgiving anyone?

convex Threads: 26
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Joined: Nov 25, 2009
  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 11:43am  #23

King Sobieski:
thanksgiving anyone?

Smallpox does tend to give one a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Matowy:
That doesn't necessarily mean renounce citizenship, though, does it? I was under the impression this oath of allegiance is just some glittery tradition designed to give a warm fuzzy feeling inside, like most American traditions.

I suppose it is now as the concept of individual nations is kind of floating into the distance.

Matowy Threads: -
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 11:47am  #24

convex:
I suppose it is now as the concept of individual nations is kind of floating into the distance.

You mean independence of some U.S regions/states, or.... ?

convex Threads: 26
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 11:50am  #25

Matowy:
You mean independence of some U.S regions/states, or.... ?

No, just the idea that a person is a citizen of a single country. The value of being tied to any one country is becoming irrelevant with the shift to a global marketplace.

King Sobieski Threads: 6
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 12:24pm  #26

convex:
Smallpox does tend to give one a warm and fuzzy feeling.

so does herpes.


are americans allowed to hold dual passports? australia only recently amended the laws to allow dual citizenship.

RevokeNice Threads: 23
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 12:27pm  #27

Matowy:
That doesn't necessarily mean renounce citizenship, though, does it? I was under the impression this oath of allegiance is just some glittery tradition designed to give a warm fuzzy feeling inside, like most American traditions.

When in Rome.....

f stop Threads: 31
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  ♀   Mar 8, 2010, 02:39pm  #28

I might be looking for a job here soon, but the fact that I'm not a citizen kept me from being faced with decisions like, do I want a great job but designing DSP boards for guided missiles?

Amathyst Threads: 23
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  ♀   Mar 8, 2010, 03:03pm  #29

Matowy:
don't think an oath is going to matter. At all. It's pretty crazy that a modern country like the U.S still does oaths.

During the ceremony, each citizen is required to swear or affirm an oath of allegiance to the Crown, and make a pledge to uphold the values and laws of the UK. We aim to make these ceremonies enjoyable and meaningful events, giving citizens an opportunity to celebrate the event rather than just complete a bureaucratic process.

http://www.kingston.gov.uk/citizenship_ceremonies

You seem to know very little about the UK, since its part of becoming a British citizen here! Or do you not consider the UK to be modern?

I gained my right to be a Subject (since we have a royal family this is what I am, I do not live in a Rebublic therefore I am not a citizen) of Britain because my family history goes back centuries (not to 2 generations)..those that wish to go to new countries, should have to be serious about becoming a citizen of that country, not just for the "benefits" but because they intend to make it their home and respect it along with the values and laws that country possess.

pantsless Threads: 1
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  ♂   Mar 8, 2010, 04:54pm  #30

King Sobieski:
are americans allowed to hold dual passports? australia only recently amended the laws to allow dual citizenship.

Yes, they are. I have dual citizenship/passports and am working on a third.



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dual citizenship - US doesn't care if you don't give up Polish passport

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