Waving Goodbye to (USA) Hegemony

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/magazine/27world-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&s q=Parag+Khanna&st=nyt&oref=slogin



how do Polish people see their future in new enviroment ? What do you think Poland should do ?

Very interesting article NYT

do you have a similar picture of Russia?

terrorstorm deluxe high and matrix of evil - from alex jones who compiled much of zeitgeist

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230

please sort, admin - thanks

I prefere EU being friend of USA.

BTW great article

Make up your mind Lukasz..prefer US as friend or not? You seem to be confused.

This Times article paints an interesting scenario, but for those of you who don't understand, the US is pretty much finished RIGHT NOW!...the 'plan' is for the 'deconstructio' of the US as it is consituted now, something like Yugoslavia, and the destruction of our middle class, which is already occuring...the 'global plan', and this includes Poland and the EU too, is for an average 'global wage' of about $10 euros an hour (or whatever currency they use, 'cause the US $ is shot), and the concentration of wealth in the hands of the ultra-rich and their corporate fronts...it's almost all over, and then all the 'rabbit-witted' will say 'What the hell happened'!??!...Global Hegemony?...the only 'Global Hegemonists' are the Central Banks & the big gangster families.

because I am confused.

Firstly, do you know Orwel and his books ? 3 blocks in competition feeding people with propaganda.

Shortly we Polands position in EU will be good (when we read EU treaty and other agreements) and we are going to have influence on this organisation.

After EU treaty/constitution it will be independent state.

So we have basis for discussion.

I prefer EU being independent form USA simultaneously with good realtionship with USA, what means free trade union, coordinating decisions with each others.

I think it will not happen, EU will be strong state and after first decisions we will see that it will be state without moral principles. Shortly europe is europe when 'we' will have power again world will see (again) what does it mean europeans ;) and I don't know if it is good.

I would prefere EU using rules created by USA (for example: liberal democracy), I think it will not happen EU will have different rules than USA and China. Simply new player.

Form Polishpoint of view it would be better to form alliance EU-USA agains China and Russia. In long term Russians are not able to be equal partners of China and they are in western hands again.

We are going to have something much different ... because our old EU cusines don't like USA.

Interesting article - however, it overly concentrates on external factors for the decline of America, possibly intentionally. Those in power in Washington will soon need scapegoats and the Eurpeans, and especially the Chinese may fit the bill perfectly.



I dont know about any concentrated global plan but I agree that the Wall Stree elites who run the so called "free-market" have conspired to rob the American middle class of not just their current earnings but their future earnings also. This has been achieved through mass propoaganda techniques which have convinced people to forego their future earnings through cheap credit bubbles in order to consume more and more. America, a great country, has been weakened, possibly terminally, as a result of this greed which masquerades as economic liberalism, when it is really monopolistic/oligopolistic in nature.

Quote
"Mass delusions are not rare. They salt the human story. The hallucinatory types are well known; so also is the sudden variation called mania, generally localized, like the tulip mania in Holland many years ago or the common- stock mania of a recent time in Wall Street. But a delusion affecting the mentality of the entire world at one time was hitherto unknown. All our experience with it is original.

The Bubble that Broke the World
http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi-bin/D.PL?s=ukR37g&d=ww2010.i.g arrett071009

The bubble that broke the world
http://www.mises.org/books/bubbleworld.pdf

End Quote

JoeP said it right, that the global hegemonists are the huge banks and gangsters. The rich Jews are behind more than we think. There are forces much bigger than the neo-cons at work.

Time to wake up to this

as I said europe is europe ;)

Personaly I think that USA is in troubles because it is not country of middle class.

We had the same situation in XVI century when we were on our peak our country was country of "middle class" this times it was nobel country, where voice of every noble was important. 200 years later Poland was country of groups of interests, "magnat" families had their interests and voice of normal nobels was worth nothing it was the end of nobel democracy in Poland. USA should be country where interests of normal people are on first place.

I can agree with Joe in this point, I wouldn't call it Jewish problem ;) It is normal process that sometimes strong groups of interests take power in country and rights of normal people are ingored or normal people are swindled.

People form the top are not patriots, now they are American tomorow European and later Chinese. That is why middle class is the most valuable part of society.

That's why Scott Ritter so proudly declared himself to be middle class. Good man

I can strongly disagree with neocon platform and I do criticize them very often. However such headlines pumping up only anti-American paranoia, pathetic hysteria. Suddenly thousands of opponents of 'American imperialism' will fill the streets of our cities celebrating victory. But does really rising Russia or China will make this world better. They are those which are supposed to replace Bush regime for the sake of humanity, right?

http://web3.aftenbladet.no/english/englishcomment/article586818.ece?se rvice=print

I think it NATOLAND is better solution, than EU being USA enemy.

Now USA fals down and it would be very easy to kick them properly to make this fall more painful.

My opinion now it is good opportunity to make USA more european because they are "weak" and able for compromises, we shouldn't 'kick' as some europeans want .

I will read tommorow... but don't think that USA will soon turn into some 3rd world country, they are having some problems but ironically in long term that may help them, they will work harder to keep their status.

Deise 07 wrote:

If America follows the example of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s, then the American dollar will become worthless.

The US is well down he road to a 'Weimar Germany'...and why did a 'Weimar Germany'
come into existence?

Seanus wrote:

The rich Jews are behind more than we think. There are forces much bigger than the neo-cons at work.

This is a big part of the answer.

However, to blame 'Jews' as such is another trap...as in WWII, the little & middle class Jews will be sacrificed, same as other ethics...The object of this 'globalism is simply as Deise7 states in the post: a 'global oligharchy/plutocracy' with the rest of us as high-tech serfs...also, Europe will be OK for awhile, as the ruling class are having their way there without the unnecessary mess of another war or fragmentation...it is the United States turn to suffer in the eyes of the elites...the end result of all of this will be a sort of 'Communism in a Velvet Glove' (made in China)...the 'elites' are essentially parasites, and, eventually, a parasite will drain the life blood from it's host...I hate to seem so negative, but it is just painful to watch someone like Bush allowing the US economy to be drained, our soldiers dying & killing in a senseless war, and our culture turning to a mish-mash of cheap rubbish...and for who?...for what?...who does Bush work for?...not Americans!...we used to be the engine of world manufacturing and economics, and used to be at least respected, and generally admired in much of the world...It is a shame.

you and your slavic world ;)

All empires and so called powers eventually fall. It's only a question of time.
Egypt fell after some 5000 years. Greece after about 1000 years. Rome took about 500 years to fall. GB a little less. USSR fell after just 70+ years. It is not surprise that the USA, after some 250 years, is heading there too.

Crow wrote:

So, we ultimately have new question in front of us- Are Slavs capable to be galactic civilization? [pardon, scientifically, question of entropy- when cosmos stop to expand and start to implode- is ultimate question]

You are asking too big a question here...We, as human beings, have not yet learned to live in harmony here, let alone be part of a 'Galactic Civilization'...and I will sum it up for you: Until man accepts the teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, there will be no solutions, or 'integration' into 'Galactic Civilization...and for those of you who doubt Jesus Christ as witnessed in the New Testament, I would say this: at least keep His teaching which is simply 1) Love God with your whole heart, soul & strength 2) Love your neighbor as yourself...until all the world keeps these commandments, there will be no real peace or 'progress'.

As far as the Universe & 'Galactic Civilization' goes, here is an interesting science-fiction book I would recommend to you, called ''Star Maker' by the British writer Olaf Stapleton:

http://manybooks.net/titles/stapledonoother07Star_Maker.html

It is a 'history of the Universe' from the perspective of a writer who has lost faith in a God
of love & salvation...Stapleton seems to have been a 'humanist', one who feels man creates God in his image, rather than the other way around...but, it is a very good read...I read it as a teenager, but I am going to read it again, because there is some interesting speculation in it.

I am pretty sure all of them would not hesitate to make a bid for hegemony if possible.



As long as there are 'different' civilisations, there will be war! It is much safer for mankind to get rid of those pretty but soulless appellations that makes a pathetic excuse to foster absurd differences between groups of people and just focus instead in developing different and unique individuals. Life would be then no less competitve, more colourful and definitely allow no War (other than some personal murders here and there!)

Life would be a brownish/greyish soup without the many so different, colorful civilizations....bless them!

PS: All philosophies who dreamed of absolute equality became cruel dictatorships very soon.
Peoples just aren't equal! And they don't want to live that way!

Slavs in space are a guarantee for beauty.

i have an idea for new thread

Life would be such a dreadful bore if 80 million Germans insist to be identically mechanic, sausage-gnawing, beer-spilling, Hasselhoff-worshiping morons; 40 million Poles insist to be identically both British plumbers and French lancers; 65 million French insist to be identically Latino transvertites or 1 billion Indians insist to be identically 'untouchable'.
Just awake your devastating brain and make a choice, which world is more colourful and interesting: One with only 200 to 8 different entities, the other 6 billion different entities?



First, all philosophies who dreamed about ubermensch have ended up into not only terrific dictatorships but also wholesale genocides.
Second, without progressive ideas about relative equality (I never talk about anything absolute) and freedom, all Europe and the world are still living in Feudal era or worse, age of slavery.
Third, some worst realisation of those above ideas should not be cited as if they are definitive and inevitable results. There are plenty other shinier examples.
Fourth, people dont need to be identical to be equal. Just living is enough reason to be equal of anyone. By the way, who do you judge inferior to you, may I ask? Could you please elaborate how inferior they are to you?

You got it!

And for the rest...I understood you as if you would prefer the many different civilisations to vanish...leaving only one greyish mass....and that this would cure the world of all problems.
With this viewpoint there is so much wrong I don't even know where to start!
(Didn't had Pol Pot the fantasy of an agrarian Utopia? No culture, no civilization ..all people just being happy farmers?)
But luckily most people are very much attached to their cultures and civilizations and don't intend to abolish them!

PS: And where did I talk about someone being inferior to me!
PPS: And it wasn't the "Übermensch"-ideology which murdered most people it was the "Equality"-ideology both in communist Russia and in Maoist China...

No, you did not get it. The fault is on my part too when I carry the joke too far. What I really mean is that it is boring if 80 million Germans insist to be just Germans, Poles just Poles...etc



As I have pointed earlier, Civilisations=

so yes, I want to get rid of them.


Please dont twist my point. I challenge you to find anything in all my posts so far that suggest people should be a faceless crowd to be equal. What I actually aim for is 6 billion different entities! (as that quite fit my musical personality!)
So with such 6 billion different people and a decent world government, the worst case can happen is some unrelated personal murders instead of total genocide! Now that is what 'progress' really means!

You know to dream well is not enough, you also have a resistant character to do good. Living itself take the toll, so I am not surprised to see Polpot, in the beginning was as a decent dreamer as any Rousseau, but in the end rivalled Hilter in the aspect of monstrosity. The same applied to Mao and Stalin too.
But while do you just pick at the worst example? Why dont you get a look at some societies like Scandinavia to see how this idea of equality has been slowly but steadily realised (and not at the expense of freedom)?


Good, it really shows your education does catch up with 'the mainstream progress'!


To return to the main topic, there have never been a US hegemony nor there will be one (other than from the delusion of some megalomaniacs!) People since late 20th century are not that stupid and docile to allow any single foreign 'policing' to exist. So why moan on things that are unreal?

I'm not sure where you get your ideas, but I'm pretty sure most Poles don't want to be French anything. If you're referring to the Polish Uhlan lancers of the Napoleonic Era, the Uhlans originated in Poland and they were modeled after Tatar horsemen. They joined Napoleon's fight only because he promised freedom for Poland.

Poles (educated ones) were always Francophiles, even Polish national anthem prominently mentions Napoleon. Uneducated ones gravitate toward nations where they can emigrate to seek a better life. If you look at the Polish emigration to the USA overwhelming majority came from the poorest south eastern part of Poland. Consequently families they left in Poland tend to associate good life with USA. It is that and the fact that the US was (during the "cold war") the only viable force capable to counter power of the USSR and give some hope for independence, which causes idealization of America in parts of population.
People who emigrate are either adventurous, persecuted or financially desperate. Majority leave for financial reasons, these tend to be not only poor, but not having even the basic education and usually low level of intelligence. These people do not carry with them national, cultural or literary traditions. They may retain some regional dialects, folk music, dress and dances (this serves well in anthropological research). In general they easily adopt to the new environment.
The one thing the last sixty odd years of history did well in Poland is to wipe out parts of the society carrying national traditions as well as promoted to the ranks of importance individuals who were sufficiently adaptable (spineless). There is a saying: "cham zawsze wygra" (boor will always prevail).
With some exceptions for the last many years country was/is ruled by new class - kleptocracy. There is no national ethos left, may be for the better.

holy crap tran anh. Bratwurst boy wrote a sensible post and you attack him for it? Geez lady, you really flew off the handle on there and for no reason. Whatever bias or opinion you have of him was obviously projected onto what he wrote. His post was objective while yours was a haranguing mess.

Just go with the americans and one day the part of your country will go to them......

And also russian misiles will target your country.........

A nice future will appear also with european countries.......

OUR (SERBIAN) GOVERNMENT WAS ON THE TRACE OF EUROPEAN COMMUNITY FOR ABOUT 8 YEARS AND ONE DAY THEY TOOK OUT KOSOVO....

Russia only knows how to threaten and most sane people wouldn't side with a shady country. That's all they do is talk. No one here takes them as a threat.


o0 "shaking"

;)