British married to a Polish woman and they have a son. Son's British Passport?

Sylvia1Threads: 1 Joined: May 21, 10 ♀	Edited by: Sylvia1 May 21, 10, 19:13 #1
My British son has been married for about 3 years to a Polish national and has a one year old son, before their son was born his wife worked legally full time here in the uk, they have been separated for 2 months and his wife says that she needs my son's passport before she can start work again, is this correct?

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM May 21, 10, 19:18 #2
Sylvia1: his wife says that she needs my son's passport before she can start work again, is this correct? Polish people can work legally in the U.K. since 2004, she does not need her son's passport for her to work in the U.K.

astonThreads: 1 Posts: 12 Joined: Oct 3, 08 ♀	Edited by: aston May 21, 10, 19:19 #3
I don't think so. EU let people work legally on their own. But try to ask the question here: http://forum.prawnikow.pl/forums.html There are lawyers answering questions. --- heh, Sean's already answered ;)

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	May 21, 10, 19:45 #4
Sylvia1: his wife says that she needs my son's passport before she can start work again, is this correct? No she does not and it would be a bad idea to give it to her.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	May 21, 10, 22:12 #5
Sylvia1: and his wife says that she needs my son's passport Because she knows that once the child is in Poland, there's absolutely no chance that your son will ever get to see the child except under her conditions. Do not, under any circumstance, allow her to have the passport. I'd also inform the UK Border Agency that the child is not to be allowed out of the UK without your son's consent.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	May 21, 10, 22:17 #6
Don't give her the son's passport! delphiandomine: I'd also inform the UK Border Agency that the child is not to be allowed out of the UK without your son's consent. Good idea.

shushThreads: 5 Posts: 552 Joined: Dec 20, 09 ♀	May 22, 10, 01:50 #7
delphiandomine: Because she knows that once the child is in Poland, there's absolutely no chance that your son will ever get to see the child except under her conditions. Poland is not Russia, there are agreements in place to make sure a father will be able to see the child even if mother with a baby lives in Poland and father in the UK.

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 22, 10, 02:05 #8

Harry:

No she does not and it would be a bad idea to give it to her.

That is very bad attitude, a child needs both parents to grow up in a stable family environment. If there are proper arrangements in place, she would have no reason for taking the kid, anyway I bet the UK and Poland have agreements on these things, and besides it appears she resides in the UK in any case.

shush:

Poland is not Russia, there are agreements in place to make sure a father will be able to see the child even if mother with a baby lives in Poland and father in the UK.

Spot on, further more a father simply cannot provide the care that a mother can, so if you want the kind to grow up mentally stable with little problems down the track i would think twice. What is more the legal system in the UK is more female friendly whilst in Poland that is not quite the case.

♂ [Suspended]

May 22, 10, 03:32 #9

hague1cmaeron:

anyway I bet the UK and Poland have agreements on these things

As with so many other bets about the country which we live in and you merely claim citizenship of, you lose your bet.

hague1cmaeron:

What is more the legal system in the UK is more female friendly whilst in Poland that is not quite the case.

You clearly have no idea at all about the Polish family court system or how it automatically places Poles over foreigners. I suggest you find something you know even the tiniest detail about and then claim expert status about that.

To recap, if partially Polish children are in Poland, the foreign parent will only ever see those children again on the terms of the Polish parent.

♂

May 22, 10, 03:58 #10

hague1cmaeron:

That is very bad attitude, a child needs both parents to grow up in a stable family environment.

Of course it does. But in some cases it's a just wishful thinking. Something is clearly dodgy if someone is asking for a passport. She lies and therefore I doubt he's gonna grow up in a mentally stable environment if it starts like that.

hague1cmaeron:

Spot on

Nope, it's like that in every country, every country tries to protect its nationals... that's simple stuff really and Poland is no different.

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 22, 10, 08:59 #11

frd:

Of course it does. But in some cases it's a just wishful thinking. Something is clearly dodgy if someone is asking for a passport. She lies and therefore I doubt he's gonna grow up in a mentally stable environment if it starts like that.

Thing is we have no idea why they separated in the first place or her motivations, I would like to find out the circumstances before making a judgement.

frd:

Nope, it's like that in every country, every country tries to protect its nationals... that's simple stuff really and Poland is no different.

The best interests of the child should always prevail, the parent that is best placed, or if both are in some kind of an arrangement to provide for that to happen, then that is the way it should be.

Harry:

As with so many other bets about the country which we live in and you merely claim citizenship of, you lose your bet.

So you are a legal expert now Harry?

Harry:

You clearly have no idea at all about the Polish family court system or how it automatically places Poles over foreigners. I suggest you find something you know even the tiniest detail about and then claim expert status about that.

To recap, if partially Polish children are in Poland, the foreign parent will only ever see those children again on the terms of the Polish parent.

I can only go on on what you can, and from observing the media over similar cases in countries like Germany and Italy, most particularly Germany with every case involving a Polish mother, the case has gone against the mother.

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 22, 10, 09:43 #12

Dear Sylvia1

I don't mean to play on your guilt as I do not know your grandchild’s circumstances but if you want your child to grow up well adjusted, you should take a look at these statistics.

According to this report the UK is failing its children.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6359363.stm

CHILD WELL-BEING TABLE
1. Netherlands
2. Sweden
3. Denmark
4. Finland
5. Spain
6. Switzerland
7. Norway
8. Italy
9. Republic of Ireland
10. Belgium
11. Germany
12. Canada
13. Greece
14. Poland
15. Czech Republic
16. France
17. Portugal
18. Austria
19. Hungary
20. United States
21. United Kingdom
Source: Unicef

So ask yourself the question whose wellbeing is really a stake here, are you keen to look out for the interests of your son or your grandson?

Who is a better carer of your grandchild your son or his wife?

Why is the relationship between your son and his wife at this stage of separation? Ask yourself honestly whose fault really is it?

Having asked yourself these questions act independently irrespective of what your son's wife or your son thinks.

It’s not a good start for your grandchild and I am sure you don’t want him to end up being stabbed one day just because he comes from a broken home.

So just to clarify the issue why are they separated, is infidelity involved, if yes then by whom?

I am sure as a women you will understand another women's motivation and you can judge if if she is acting from the best of intentions or not.

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: delphiandomine May 22, 10, 09:48 #13

shush:

Poland is not Russia, there are agreements in place to make sure a father will be able to see the child even if mother with a baby lives in Poland and father in the UK.

Sure, he'll be able to see the child. But on her terms, and her terms alone. If she doesn't want him to have any contact - do you really think that the Polish family court is going to rule on the side of the foreigner?

The fact that she's already a proven liar tells you everything about her motives.

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,654 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	May 22, 10, 09:56 #14
delphiandomine: do you really think that the Polish family court is going to rule on the side of the foreigner? Let us not presume, if we don't Know how the system works. My guess is that it is inline with most other EU countries.

♂ [Suspended]

May 22, 10, 10:30 #15

hague1cmaeron:

Let us not presume, if we don't Know how the system works. My guess is that it is inline with most other EU countries.

Your guess is completely wrong. Permit me to quote from a 2008 report by the US State Department on inteenational compliance with the Hague Convention (you do know what the Hague Convention is, don't you, given how you're mouthing off about how much you know about this topic) "Poland demonstrated patterns of noncompliance in FY 2007. Specifically, compliance failures in Poland stem from the Polish courts inability to enforce court ordered returns under the Convention. In more than one case, Polish authorities were unable to locate the children and their taking parents after courts ordered the return of a child. Law enforcement in Poland is limited by the fact that neither parental abduction nor the failure to comply with a Convention return order is a criminal offense in Poland. Consequently, Polish authorities have fewer investigative resources available to locate children and their taking parents. For several years, the Polish Central Authority has told the USCA that they intend to propose legislation to criminalize parental abduction, but the USCA is not yet aware that such legislation has been introduced."

delphiandomine:

The fact that she's already a proven liar tells you everything about her motives.

Yes, but she's a Pole and therefore (according to other idiot Poles) incapable of doing anything wrong.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	May 22, 10, 10:48 #16
here is what she wants: It's quite simple. The mother of the child wants to change the passport for a Polish one or at least get the child out of the country. If the mother then takes the child to Poland the father is not likely to see the child again. The only reason the child needs a passport is to leave the country. We all know that.

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 22, 10, 10:56 #17

Harry:

Hague Convention is, don't you, given how you're mouthing off about how much you know about this topic

Harry could you please stop lying about me, when did I ever mouth off about the topic of the Hague convention?

Hague-refers to William Hague Britain's foreign secretary.

Harry:

Yes, but she's a Pole and therefore (according to other idiot Poles) incapable of doing anything wrong.

Same is applicable to you, except take out the word Pole and insert the word Brit, you racist bigot.

♂ [Suspended]

May 22, 10, 11:05 #18

Wroclaw:

If the mother then takes the child to Poland the father is not likely to see the child again.

You hit the nail on the head there. Here's a quote from the 2007 US report the this issue: "The Department finds that Poland demonstrated patterns of noncompliance in FY 2006. Specifically, Poland’s noncompliance falls in the performance of law enforcement in locating children and in enforcing the return of children or access to children under the Convention. Polish authorities continue to lack the ability to conduct nationwide searches for missing children, both prior to judicial filing and in relation to enforcement. This was at least partly because neither international parental child abduction nor willful noncompliance with return orders is a criminal offense in Poland but instead are merely civil offenses. Refusing to obey an order seems to carry few negative consequences for the taking parent. In some instances, the court rewarded the taking parent who refused to comply with a court order by ultimately ruling that, because so much time had elapsed, it was not in the child’s best interests to be returned after all."

Pretty damning stuff, isn't it?

hague1cmaeron:

Same is applicable to you, except take out the word Pole and insert the word Brit, you racist bigot.

That would be a masterly point, if I was British. But I'm not. Sorry! Nice to see that you've now conceeded you know nothing about this topic and instead now focus exclusively on insults.

♂

Edited by: zetigrek May 22, 10, 11:16 #19

Because she knows that once the child is in Poland, there's absolutely no chance that your son will ever get to see the child except under her conditions.

Do not, under any circumstance, allow her to have the passport. I'd also inform the UK Border Agency that the child is not to be allowed out of the UK without your son's consent.

Does she need her son's passport or her grandson's passport. I don't get it.

It's quite simple. The mother of the child wants to change the passport for a Polish one or at least get the child out of the country.

she doesnt need any passport to move from country to a country in EU, am I wrong?

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	May 22, 10, 11:41 #20
zetigrek: she doesnt need any passport to move from country to a country in EU, am I wrong? The child doesn't have an identity card. Therefore a passport is required. My kids travel on passports. I use an ID card most of the time.

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,654 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 22, 10, 11:46 #21
Harry: That would be a masterly point, if I was British. But I'm not. Sorry! Nice to see that you've now conceeded you know nothing about this topic and instead now focus exclusively on insults. Whatever it is you consider yourself to be, you are the one who started with insults. Typical you initiate the insults and then run to mother.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	May 22, 10, 11:49 #22
hague1cmaeron: and then run to mummy. I don't think he did, you lost mate just take it on the chin.

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 22, 10, 11:55 #23

time means:

I don't think he did, you lost mate just take it on the chin.

By calling poles idiotic, open your eyes the guy has a track record of negativity, partly deriving from the fact that I humiliated him on the: Poland gets a little bit bigger thread. He usually resorts to lying when losing as demonstrated above.

And if he is not a Brit and has the courage to tell us what exactly he is, I am sure it would make it a lot easier provided it is not one of those small neutral type countries, like Holland and Sweden etc.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	May 22, 10, 12:00 #24
hague1cmaeron: He usually resorts to lying Show us the lie.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	Edited by: Moderator May 22, 10, 12:01 #25
Harry: other idiot Poles hague1cmaeron: calling poles idiotic Come on hague there is a world of difference between the two comments and you know it. hague1cmaeron: when losing He clearly didn't lose this one. hague1cmaeron: the fact that I humiliated him on the: So that's one each. And therefore the end of it, please.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM May 22, 10, 12:29 #26
She doesn't need the passport.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Edited by: Wroclaw May 22, 10, 12:32 #27
SeanBM: She doesn't need the passport. the topic has gone in two directions. She doesn't need the passport for work ? or She doesn't need the passport for the child ?

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	May 22, 10, 12:34 #28
She wants the passport to get the kid out of the country. Your best bet is to seek legal advice.

♂

Edited by: frd May 22, 10, 12:42 #29

I kind of agree with hague although Harry has got interesting views on certain things from time to time and seems to have a bit of knowledge about history or a lot of time to google, his posts are often biased.

SeanBM:

Show us the lie.

I'd say he isn't lieing but he tends to obscure his mistakes with edubabble and ignore points which he can't counter. I can bring up the Polish Paratroopers over Netherlands thread I asked certain questions he answered where in the article I'm supposed to find whatever he was talking about - I read pages he mentioned twice didn't find it. I don't even bother answering him when he goes into that "foam on mouth" mode because I know I won't change a thing.

hague1cmaeron:

Thing is we have no idea why they separated in the first place or her motivations,

Yeah, I have to agree.. we can't tell from what she posted if the father was beating his kid and his wife or was the break her fault.

Anyways, I still think Poland is no different from other countries around the world and would protect its nationals.

Does she really need the passport to take her kid out of UK.. I mean european union members can move freely across Europe whenever they want to..

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	May 22, 10, 13:17 #30
frd: Does she really need the passport to take her kid out of UK.. I mean european union members can move freely across Europe whenever they want to.. Heard of something called the Schengen zone?

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