"Expectation of your salary" question during a job interview

John182Threads: - Posts: 4 Joined: May 20, 11 ♂	May 20, 11, 22:56 #31
Hello Mauro, I've got an offer from HP Wroclaw as well. Could you send me a private mail, I would like to ask you some questions. I can't contact you till I answer 4 messages in the forum.

nightmaarThreads: - Posts: 3 Joined: Jun 22, 11 ♂	Jun 22, 11, 22:18 #32
Hello guys, Could anyone please help with a guesstimate (or more or less informed answer) on how much a 3'rd level support IT specialist (SAP) would earn working for IBM Wroclaw? I would appreciate a reply (pm it's ok also) as I've read here on a couple of threads some contradicting opinions. Thank you much

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,415 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Jun 23, 11, 00:07 #33
mauro: Hello !!! I have noticed during my job interviews in Poland they always ask me about my expectation of salary. Don`t they do it elsewhere?

cjjThreads: 2 Posts: 239 Joined: Sep 28, 07 ♀	Jun 23, 11, 19:36 #34
Don`t they do it elsewhere? Why would they, when an advertisement will say up front what the salary is?

ItsAllAboutMEThreads: 4 Posts: 358 Joined: Apr 30, 10 ♀	Jun 23, 11, 19:38 #35
cjj: Why would they, when an advertisement will say up front what the salary is? I can't say anything about Poland but here we almost never include the salary in job posts, unless it's a low-level admin or similar job, with an hourly rate.

cjjThreads: 2 Posts: 239 Joined: Sep 28, 07 ♀	Jun 23, 11, 22:07 #36
'Here' is US ? (had a quick look at your profile) That's interesting - there was me thinking it was just Poland. I was used to the sort of situation you can see in the link below - ok some of them are saying silly words like "excellent" or "competitive", but by and large $'s are mentioned clearly. http://www.totaljobs.com/JobSeeking/(Software%20Development).html Seems up-front and sensible.

♂

Edited by: joepilsudski Jun 23, 11, 22:13 #37

mauro:

Hello !!!
I have noticed during my job interviews in Poland they always ask me about my expectation of salary.
SHouldn't be like they tell u how much is the salary and u'll say if u're agree or not ??
I never know which kind of answer I have to give to this question !!

This question is asked worldwide...It is simply part of the psychological warfare of the job application/interview process...From the employers POV, THEY ask the questions, YOU give the answers!

I make two suggestions: 1...If you are really interested in job, do some study and perhaps talk to people doing similar jobs about what the going rate of pay is...This way you can give a reasonable answer.

2...If you don't give a sh*t about the job, or the interviewer is particularly obnoxious, simply say to him/her 'My expectation is to make more than you, because you are a moron and an a**hole' loudly and clearly.

♀

Jun 23, 11, 22:30 #38

I guess it all depends on the country. If you look at careerbuilder.com or monster.com, both of which are the largest general job boards in the us, the percentage of jobs listing the actual salaries/wages is low.

joepilsudski:

From the employers POV, THEY ask the questions, YOU give the answers!

I do a lot of interviews, daily. it's not as cynical as you think. I simply want to know what the candidate's expectations are. It's not a trick question. If they're too high, I tell them right away so we don't waste each other's time. If they're low, we give them what they asked for (if they're hired) and then have a lot of room for a generous increase next year. I want to hire the best people, I'm not going to make my selection just based on their salary.

payscale.com is a great place to get the scope on the market data for most positions. I see they list a lot of countries. Their data for the US is very reliable.

joepilsudski:

If you don't give a sh*t about the job, or the interviewer is particularly obnoxious, simply say to him/her 'My expectation is to make more than you, because you are a moron and an a**hole' loudly and clearly.

I'm sure that would land you a job very quickly... In fact, you wouldn't believe how much that could burn you later on, even with another company. Hiring managers and HR people network a LOT, it's a small world, with a lot of professional conferences and other venues for exchanging information, we rejected some candidates based on such "funny" stories from other companies, from people's facebook pages, etc. Even if you don't think that the job is a good fit for you, make sure you're nice during the interview, no matter what. An opportunity may open later on, for a better position, for a different department. Why burn bridges for no good reason?

♂

Jun 23, 11, 23:39 #39

ItsAllAboutME:

If they're low, we give them what they asked for (if they're hired) and then have a lot of room for a generous increase next year.

STOP!!!

ItsAllAboutME:

In fact, you wouldn't believe how much that could burn you later on, even with another company.

Well, my experience in my city (and understand that men my age do not generally even get considered for mainstream jobs anymore) is that many 'human resources' people are really quite pitiful, and usually just do their hiring based on a 'cheat sheet' or guidelines handed down from somewhere above...They really don't consider you as a person, but a human resource, like soybeans...This is my experience in the modern job market...If you display too much intelligence or individuality, you are dismissed rather quickly, even if you may be a good team player.

Much hiring is done nowadays by third party contractors, and they are the worst.

In the old days, your skills counted, along with your personality...Now personality is a negative, unless the personality is one that appears on the instructions given to the human resources firm, or department.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Moderator Jun 23, 11, 23:41 #40

cjj:

I was used to the sort of situation you can see in the link below - ok some of them are saying silly words like "excellent" or "competitive", but by and large $'s are mentioned clearly.

Those are salary ranges. I hope you understand the difference. A lot of Polish people don’t understand that the employer negotiates the salary based on applicant’s qualifications. Hence the salary ranges. Another important factor in salary negotiations is your awareness of the market demand for specific skills or a profession. Do your research of the company and the job market ahead of the time and before you apply. Also i would like to add that knowledge of English is usually taken for granted and what relay counts is the concrete and relevant on job experience and the ability to present it to your potential employer in a casual, confident and relaxed manner. A through and thorough understanding of those few concepts can give you a significant advantage over other potential applicants, if you're seeking a job in the West that is.

joepilsudski:

If you display too much intelligence or individuality, you are dismissed rather quickly, even if you may be a good team player.

Seems to me that you had a lot of bad experiences in the past. Most employers i worked for were looking for intelligent, strong willed, self driven individuals, i guess we live in different worlds.

♂ [Suspended]

Jun 23, 11, 23:57 #41

mauro:

I have noticed during my job interviews in Poland they always ask me about my expectation of salary.SHouldn't be like they tell u how much is the salary and u'll say if u're agree or not ??I never know which kind of answer I have to give to this question !!

It's the same way over here. Sometimes companies have a salary in mind but hope to get peeps for cheaper. So they ask hoping that the applicant will shoot lower than their number.

But often times, unless it's a big company with its own HR department that hires all the time and is aware of what the industry standard is paying, sometimes smaller companies really don't know what a position is worth or what their competitors are paying for a similar job. So they really are asking you how much they should pay for the position, or how much they would have to pay you to take the job.

You should always know going in how much you have in mind, so just shoot a little higher than that.
And if the interview is concluding and still no one has brought up salary, it is fine to inquire as to what the position pays. Some peeps are afraid to ask this but it's ok to.

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Jun 24, 11, 00:12 #42

Llamatic:

sometimes smaller companies really don't know what a position is worth

the data is free all over the internet... it goes both ways, though. I found that actually a lot of applicants have unrealistic expectations, too, particularly if they have worked for one company for a very long time.

It's ok to ask for a bit more, if you have the skills to support your price, but don't go overboard, you'll appear delusional.

joepilsudski:

STOP!!!

ok, whatever. if you ever had a chance to look at our compensation statistics, the people who were green-circled when hired (they asked for less money than we were ready to pay) consistently get higher rates of salary increases than others. unless they suck. then they don't get anything or get fired.

joepilsudski:

Now personality is a negative, unless the personality is one that appears on the instructions given to the human resources firm, or department.

nope. we usually rate candidates on their communication skills, initiative, responses to workplace conflict, integrity just as on their technical skills, and we're not unique in that manner. Don't kid yourself, even if you're more skilled than god himself, if you lack a positive disposition during the interview, you're not getting hired.

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Jun 24, 11, 21:13 #43

Havok:

Those are salary ranges. I hope you understand the difference.

Yes, I believe I do, thanks for asking.

They're also "yearly, gross" values rather than the Polish habit of "monthly, net"... or sometimes "monthly, gross" which I also find endlessly confusing :)

I would like to advertise with a range. When I have laid out the requirements of the post it seems only fair to state the remuneration range on offer. Then a job-seeker can decide if it's worth their while, and after the interview I can decide where they land within the range with respect to their experience and interview.

MEMBER ♂

Jun 24, 11, 22:24 #44

cjj:

Yes, I believe I do, thanks for asking.

I would like to advertise with a range. When I have laid out the requirements of the post it seems only fair to state the remuneration range on offer. Then a job-seeker can decide if it's worth their while, and after the interview I can decide where they land within the range with respect to their experience and interview.

Cji you're such a noob lol, and you have it a little bit backwards too, the job applicant needs a job and the employer has it, not the other way around. The interview is not like shopping in a grocery store where you pick and choose to buy things at the right price. In today's job market there are always 20 other people applying for the position that you're seeking to get too. It's important to know that as an applicant, you should avoid asking those questions directly unless THEY ask you first. When they ask you about the salary, give them a number but make sure it's appropriate. Under normal circumstance people negotiate the salary after the job offer was given to them. Overall, don't be greedy, get a job first learn something there and just move on when you find something better. Eventually you get better at interviewing, and figure out your own salary negotiation techniques. This is how it works for the first-timers.

cjj:

They're also "yearly, gross" values rather than the Polish habit of "monthly, net"... or sometimes "monthly, gross" which I also find endlessly confusing :)

Who cares.

♂

Edited by: convex Jun 25, 11, 12:37 #45

Havok:

Cji you're such a noob lol, and you have it a little bit backwards too, the job applicant needs a job and the employer has it, not the other way around. The interview is not like shopping in a grocery store where you pick and choose to buy things at the right price. In today's job market there are always 20 other people applying for the position that you're seeking to get too.

It depends. Quite a few higher end specialized IT jobs come with a salary range posted, and nearly all contract jobs are posted with a salary. Honestly, it's a waste of time for both sides to play the salary game. Even for entry level jobs, I post a salary. Everyone goes in knowing what to expect.

cjj:

They're also "yearly, gross" values rather than the Polish habit of "monthly, net"... or sometimes "monthly, gross" which I also find endlessly confusing :)

Gross is the only thing that should be posted. Net salary is impacted by quite a few variables and makes no sense to post.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 25, 11, 13:23 #46
Havok: In today's job market there are always 20 other people applying for the position that you're seeking to get too. That would depend on which skills one has.

lacanauproThreads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Jun 25, 11 ♂	Jun 25, 11, 14:22 #47
Always good to check for surveys on internet about salaries for a particular job before an Interview. In the end I've always ended up with the top salary for the position.

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