Holocaust and gender studies in Poland?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,835 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	May 14, 11, 16:28 #1
Are Holocaust and/or gender studies practiced in Poland? How widespread are they?

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May 15, 11, 14:08 #2

What the hell is a Holocaust study?

If someone in Holocaust Studies "Questioned" how the Holocaust went down then they could be jailed by the thought police.

Why is the Holocaust the only 1930-40's genocide that we hear about most?

We rarely hear about the much worse Genocide on Ukrainians in the Holodomor or the Chinese ciivilians killed by Japanese or the Serbs who died in Jasenovac concentration camps.
Of course the Jews hog the holocaust for themselves, I mean just as many Polish Catholics died in Poland as did Jews & Gypsies, Retards & Homosexuals died too.

But, the Jew is the only one that really sticks.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 15, 11, 14:15 #3
I'd be careful with such a course too. First off, clear consensus is hard to come by. Gender studies lends itself far better to university studies but I'm not really sure how popular it is.

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May 15, 11, 14:28 #4

PolskiMoc:

If someone in Holocaust Studies "Questioned" how the Holocaust went down then they could be jailed by the thought police.

Just shut up, seriously.

Plenty of people question the holocaust without being jailed. Nothing new, sunshine.

Polonius3:

Are Holocaust and/or gender studies practiced in Poland? How widespread are they?

Gender studies is, though I can't think where off the top of my head.

Holocaust studies generally come under history - I don't think there's specific courses for that, though.

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May 15, 11, 14:32 #5

delphiandomine:

Just shut up, seriously.

Plenty of people question the holocaust without being jailed. Nothing new, sunshine.

Holocaust denial is a crime in many places including Poland.
Holocaust denial also includes distorting or minimizing the holocaust.

Which is kind of sickening.

Also I think it puts into question why are the nations the Holocaust happened in so bent on jailing people who question the holocaust?

Kind of seems like there is something to hide.

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May 15, 11, 14:36 #6

PolskiMoc:

Holocaust denial is a crime in many places including Poland.
Holocaust denial also includes distorting or minimizing the holocaust.

Actually, denying many crimes is against the law in Poland, not just the Holocaust. Try defending Communist crimes in Poland and see how long you last as a free man, sunshine.

PolskiMoc:

Also I think it puts into question why are the nations the Holocaust happened in so bent on jailing people who question the holocaust?

Why are Poles prosecuting those who question Communist crimes?

Something to hide, perhaps?

PolskiMocThreads: 7 Posts: 488 Joined: Mar 15, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	May 15, 11, 14:38 #7
delphiandomine: Actually, denying many crimes is against the law in Poland, not just the Holocaust. Try defending Communist crimes in Poland and see how long you last as a free man, sunshine. Defending is different than Questioning or say it didn't happen.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	May 15, 11, 14:39 #8
PolskiMoc: Defending is different than Questioning or say it didn't happen. Tell me, what's the difference between denying the Holocaust and denying Communist crimes? Poles definitely have something to hide by your logic.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,835 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	May 15, 11, 15:01 #9
Michnik has repeatedly defended the communsit crimes of his family by his silence. His father was a Comintern subversive, his mother -- a Sovietiser (schoolbook distorter) of Pollish youth; brother desk-top murderer now hiding in Sweden. He has also defended criminals Jaruzelski and Kiszczak, whislt discrediting true patriots such as Kuklinski.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	May 15, 11, 15:03 #10
Polonius3: Michnik has repeatedly defended the communsit crimes of his family by his silence. That's okay, Poland as a whole has pretty much defended the Communist crimes committed by her citizens during the 1945-1990 period. I don't recall Poland ever admitting that a huge swathe of her population was involved in collaborating (actively/passively) with the regime.

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Edited by: Moderator May 15, 11, 15:39 #11

PolskiMoc:

I mean just as many Polish Catholics died in Poland as did Jews & Gypsies, Retards & Homosexuals died too.

Really? Which extermination camps were for Polish Catholics?

Polonius3:

Michnik has repeatedly defended the communsit crimes of his family by his silence.

You say that he has defended them by saying nothing but one could equally validly say that he has attacked them by saying nothing.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,835 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	May 15, 11, 15:41 #12
In many US schools Second World War history is mainly holocaust history. There is also a separate discpline called Holocaust Studies which is strongly promoted by certain quarters.

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May 15, 11, 15:46 #13

Harry:

Really? Which extermination camps were for Polish Catholics?

The best-kept secret in the U.S. about the Holocaust is that Poland lost six million citizens or about one-fifth of its population: three million of the dead were Polish Christians, predominantly Catholic, and the other three million were Polish Jews. The second best-kept secret of the Holocaust is the greatest number of Gentile rescuers of Jews were Poles, despite the fact that only in Poland were people (and their loved ones) immediately executed if caught trying to save Jews. The Yad Vashem museum in Israel honors "the Righteous Among the Nations" and Poland ranks first among 40 nations with 5,503 men and women, almost one-third of the total, honored for their "compassion, courage and morality" and who "risked their lives to save the lives of Jews."

Alot of people were in the Communist parties because of the pull. Alot of people were given security to be on the side of the Communists.

It took balls to be in Polish Solidarity. So not everyone who supported it did.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,835 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	May 15, 11, 16:02 #14
Auschwitz was originally set up for ethnic Poles. The Jews came later and were dealt with mainly at Birkenau about a mile away.

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May 15, 11, 16:59 #15

PolskiMoc:

The second best-kept secret of the Holocaust is the greatest number of Gentile rescuers of Jews were Poles

Really? I've never ever heard anybody say that before!

PolskiMoc:

despite the fact that only in Poland were people (and their loved ones) immediately executed if caught trying to save Jews.

That particular lie has been dealt with many times. You show your ignorance by repeating it yet again.

Polonius3:

Auschwitz was originally set up for ethnic Poles. The Jews came later and were dealt with mainly at Birkenau about a mile away.

Quite right. But Auschwitz 1 was not actually an extermination camp, was it?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 15, 11, 17:05 #16
Is that sarcasm, Harry? ;) Żegota helped out which is great as it wasn't so easy to do. Harry, were you there? If not, it's hard to tell, isn't it? I heard of isolated cases of summary executions but I don't profess to know if that's the truth either way.

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May 15, 11, 18:35 #17

Harry:

But Auschwitz 1 was not actually an extermination camp,

No it was not; everyone knows that it was a fun vacation camp.

As to gender studies in Poland, are the feminists there as militant, angry and dysfunctional as they are in the U.S. and Canada?

Some American courses include philosophies as this: "The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart,

What feminism has wrought in North America:

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,389 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	May 15, 11, 22:13 #18
Seanus: Żegota helped out which is great as it wasn't so easy to do. Have a look at this site Seanus, its quite interesting: http://www.dialog.org/current/heroes.html

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May 15, 11, 22:26 #19

PolskiMoc:

Of course the Jews hog the holocaust for themselves, I mean just as many Polish Catholics died in Poland as did Jews & Gypsies, Retards & Homosexuals died too.

While I get your point, some Jewish academics might say that "Holocaust" is a Jewish word and therefore refers only to the "Jewish experience". With regards to the Rom, there is a phrase known as "The Devouring", which has become widespread. The disabled is known as T4 (its official title under the nazis) or, in Germany, as the "euthenasia programme", I believe (I could be wrong).

Talking of which, I find it pretty offensive that you use the word 'retard'.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 15, 11, 22:28 #20
Thanks, warsz. I wouldn't applaud them because they saved Jews per se but because they saved innocent lives.

Lyzko

May 15, 11, 22:40 #21

It would appear that Holocaust studies, particularly in the light of flagrant denial of same, here on PF as elsewhere, should be mandatory every place, not only or even mostly, in Poland. The US may be in fact the "leader" in this foul cottage industry. Russia for example far outstrips Poland, Austria, Germany or the Baltic states, in its virulent revisionism.

Let's not constantly blame the Poles!!

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,389 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Edited by: warszawski May 15, 11, 22:40 #22
Seanus: saved innocent lives. Here is list of 700, who paid with their live: http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/list.htm I watched the film " Defamation " if it is fact, the treatment of those Israeli children, is nothing more than brain washing, as a friend of Israel, it was very interesting to see another angle.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 15, 11, 22:48 #23
Yeah, we should be careful with so-called facts here. Too many claim to know all about what happened when nobody was there. RIP to those who valiantly sought to save the lives of fellow human beings.

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	May 15, 11, 23:14 #24
Trevek: some Jewish academics might say that "Holocaust" is a Jewish word Holocaust is a term from ancient Greece which refered to a sacrifice in which all of the victim was allowed to be burnt up, rather than the regular procedure in which, thanks to Prometheus, humans got to eat the better part. I think the Jewish word, for the WW2 Nazi genocide directed at them, is "Shoah".

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May 15, 11, 23:30 #25

Des Essientes:

Holocaust is a term from ancient Greece which refered to a sacrifice in which all of the victim was allowed to be burnt up, rather than the regular procedure in which, thanks to Prometheus, humans got to eat the better part. I think the Jewish word, for the WW2 Nazi genocide directed at them, is "Shoah".

Duh! yes, Des, you're right. I think "Holocaust" was used as a translation for "Shoah". However, some scholars claim that it is only to be used for the "Jewish experience" because theirs was (in their mind) the only one where a whole genocide was planned (a very debatable point in my book!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Use_of_the_term_Holocaust_for_J ewish_and_non-Jewish_victims

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May 15, 11, 23:42 #26

warszawski:

I watched the film " Defamation " if it is fact, the treatment of those Israeli children, is nothing more than brain washing, as a friend of Israel, it was very interesting to see another angle.

I haven't seen that film, so I don't know if it covers the same ground, but I did see one documentary about a Jewish man going back to the town where he was born before the war. I think it was called "Shtetl". One of the guys he encounters was a Polish librarian in the village who was trying to promote the Jewish history of the village and to find old Jewish gravestones so he could restore the Jewish cemetery.

During the film the librarian is taken to Israel to meet a high-ranking rabbi, who praises his work. Then the poor guy meets a load of Israeli high school students who just attack him verbally for being Polish, demanding that Poles admit and acknowledge their blame.

The film was also interesting because one man returned to the village to reward someone who'd helped him. The old Pole is puzzled as to why this gentleman is giving him a present. When he finds out who it is, he starts shaking... he starts telling tem man that he was one of the people who'd helped him but other villagers had said he had actually sold the family to the nazis, because he had turned up wearing the Jewish guy's coat. The old Jew comments that he'd given him the coat as a thank-you at the time. of course he remembered the help he'd been given and this was why he had returned to reward him.

I found it interesting, especially when we consider how much stock is put on the memories of "witnesses".

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	May 15, 11, 23:57 #27
ah, found it: http://www.logtv.com/films/shtetl/default.html

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May 16, 11, 00:06 #28

Trevek:

During the film the librarian is taken to Israel to meet a high-ranking rabbi, who praises his work. Then the poor guy meets a load of Israeli high school students who just attack him verbally for being Polish, demanding that Poles admit and acknowledge their blame.

I will watch the film, thanks for reco. Defamation will be a good one to watch, as it gives you an idea of how the director of the film, sees the preparation of the school children, before they go on trips to Poland, to visit the places related to jewish history.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,228 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	May 16, 11, 01:02 #29
Lyzko: It would appear that Holocaust studies, particularly in the light of flagrant denial of same, here on PF as elsewhere, should be mandatory every place Why? Tell me what you know about the holocaust in German South West Africa. Who made one set of victims from a century packed full of innocent victims the "supreme victims" ?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 16, 11, 01:06 #30
isthatu2: Tell me what you know about the holocaust in German South West Africa. Who made one set of victims from a century packed full of innocent victims the "supreme victims" ? Oh...another holocaust by the Germans....look Ma! Why don't you use some british holocausts as example??? :(

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