Is it true that foreigners in Poland can teach English without any teaching certificate?

wannaknow	Jan 15, 12, 18:50 #1
is it true that any foreigners can teach english without any teaching certificate? as long as they can speak english well,and what is the salary for an english teacher in private school? and chinese teachers are wanted a lot or not in poland?

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Jan 15, 12, 18:52 #2
wannaknow: is it true that any foreigners can teach english without any teaching certificate? If someone is willing to hire them...

modafinilThreads: - Posts: 831 Joined: Jun 28, 11 ♂	Jan 15, 12, 19:06 #3
Given that just about every idiot who sits a tefl exam passes (near 100%), not especially valued just a minimum standard to say you're not a complete div. You can pick up a tefl cert. over a weekend's course and advanced level takes another two days.

♀

Jan 15, 12, 20:42 #4

modafinil:

You can pick up a tefl cert. over a weekend's course and advanced level takes another two days.

not a proper one, though, modafinil.
A real tefl course that employers recognize (RSA/Camb/Trinity) takes four or five weeks of intensive study and daily teaching practice, and it is quite possible to fail it. And it IS only an entry level qualification. Most employers would ask for an A or B pass in this, or/plus a minimum of two years experience.
As you say there are some joke courses, but any school that took these seriously would not be worth working for.
I think anyone attempting to teach English without a proper qualification would no longer find any work anywhere in Europe.
Could try Vietnam though, from what I have heard..:)

♂ [Suspended]

Jan 15, 12, 21:06 #5

wannaknow:

is it true that any foreigners can teach english without any teaching certificate? as long as they can speak english well,and what is the salary for an english teacher in private school? and chinese teachers are wanted a lot or not in poland?

No-one is going to employ a Chinese English speaker (with English as a 2nd language) when they can hire plenty of talented Polish teachers who have the papers.

modafinil:

Given that just about every idiot who sits a tefl exam passes (near 100%), not especially valued just a minimum standard to say you're not a complete div. You can pick up a tefl cert. over a weekend's course and advanced level takes another two days.

There's no such thing as a "tefl exam".

rozumiemnic:

A real tefl course that employers recognize (RSA/Camb/Trinity) takes four or five weeks of intensive study and daily teaching practice, and it is quite possible to fail

Apparently the pass rate for the CELTA is around 95% - but as you rightfully say, most employers will ask for A or B. A "pass" is a sign of not being prepared enough.

♂

Edited by: modafinil Jan 15, 12, 21:07 #6

rozumiemnic:

Could try Vietnam though, from what I have heard..:)

Coincidentally, I did have in mind when writing the above, an old school classmate who lost his job near the beginning of the recession who took a one week tefl course and then went off to the Gulf of Thailand area, touring the surrounding countries and 'teaching'. He left school with a grade E(or worse) in English.

delphidomine:

There's no such thing as a "tefl exam".

Yes there is. Otherwise exams boards UCLES, Trinity College, ARELS and London Chamber of Commerce and Industry couldn't exist. It's implicit in the language.

♀

Jan 15, 12, 21:15 #7

modafinil:

took a one week tefl course and then went off to the Gulf of Thailand area, touring the surrounding countries and 'teaching'. He left school with a grade E(or worse) in English.

yes I had a friend who took three attempts at English O level, failing each time, failed a TEFL course, and went off to Taiwan and did really well playing hangman etc for a living....
More recently a mate has gone to Vietnam armed with nothing but a business suit and is already employed by two schools....

♂ [Suspended]

Jan 15, 12, 21:19 #8

modafinil:

Coincidentally, I did have in mind when writing the above, an old school classmate who lost his job near the beginning of the recession who took a one week tefl course and then went off to the Gulf of Thailand area, touring the surrounding countries and 'teaching'. He left school with a grade E(or worse) in English.

Without a doubt - if you go to tinpot areas of the world, certificates are meaningless. I have a Polish friend who managed to convince many schools in Latin America that he was actually "Mark" from England.

modafinil:

Yes there is. Otherwise exams boards UCLES, Trinity College, ARELS and London Chamber of Commerce and Industry couldn't exist. It's implicit in the language.

But what I'm saying is that there's no standardised concept of what a "TEFL" exam is - it's a meaningless concept. You need to clearly specify what you're talking about - and as said above, the Trinity/CELTA ones are the gold standard in Polish private schools.

Lyzko

Jan 15, 12, 21:27 #9

And at the risk of sounding like the proverbial "broken record", I find it disgusting that any Tom, Dick or Harry can teach Poles English WITHOUT certification, let alone not being a native English speaker, whereas in order to teach Polish or any other language here in the States, we require certificates, confirmation of information, degrees, references ad infinitum:-)

English has long since become the cesspool among languages. It certainly doesn't say much about us if our language is treated often as about the same as communal toilet paper, 'scuse the analogy!

The mother tongue of Chaucer and Shakespeare has been put through the ringer and it's slowly becoming an endangered language, slated for extinction, along with Het, Basque, Brushaski and a few others.

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,026 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Edited by: rozumiemnic Jan 15, 12, 21:29 #10
Lyzko: The mother tongue of Chaucer and Shakespeare has been put through the ringer and it's slowly becoming an endangered language, slated for extinction, hardly. I love people mashing up English, I make a good living from it..;)

modafinilThreads: - Posts: 831 Joined: Jun 28, 11 ♂	Jan 15, 12, 21:32 #11
Perhaps I should have made it clearer that by tefl I meant it generically as short for teaching English as a second language. But then again it is a generic acronymn not a specific one like TESOL or CELTA. However, all the OP asked was do you need a certificate not the quality. I was pointing out tefl certs. are **** easy to obtain.

Lyzko	Jan 15, 12, 21:33 #12
Thanks for nothing, rozumiemnic! Trust/Hope you're only goofing around.

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,026 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Edited by: rozumiemnic Jan 15, 12, 21:35 #13
Lyzko: Thanks for nothing, rozumiemnic! Trust/Hope you're only goofing around. no I am deadly serious..;) I make a living from proofreading academic essays of overseas students who enrol in UK universities with a very low level of English. The universities like their money.

Lyzko

Jan 15, 12, 21:37 #14

If they're that easy to obtain, modafinil, then what are they worth? As Polish teachers here must, and indeed should, be native Poles, somehow the thinking should be changed that only native Poles should teach other Poles English. Whatever happened to Poles teach us Polish, French teach us French, English natives teach everybody else English?? Kinda makes sense, doesn't it? Who can argue with a native speaker of the language they're teaching when push comes to shove?

Lyzko	Jan 15, 12, 21:40 #15
If you're serious, hon, then you're sadly part of the problem rather than the solution; you're merely contributing to the continue mediocritization of the English language. God help us all, everyone!

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,026 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Edited by: rozumiemnic Jan 15, 12, 21:42 #16
Lyzko: If you're serious, hon, then you're sadly part of the problem no Lyzko, I am supplying a much needed service. Native speakers use me too. I am not complaining..:) Why shouldn't I cash in on something I am good at?

Lyzko

Jan 15, 12, 21:45 #17

I do the same type of work, so indeed we're rather in competition. The difference though is that English IS my native language (nice money notwithstanding). I can always fall back on my competely unaccented birth language. Now, if you are a bilingual Polish/English speaker,as I am in German, i.e. indistinguishable from the other, that's another thing entirely. In that case, no problems on my end:-) LOL

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,026 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Edited by: rozumiemnic Jan 15, 12, 21:46 #18
No Lyzko I am English......and only proofread English, I do not see how improving someone's written work is contributing to 'mediocrization'.

modafinilThreads: - Posts: 831 Joined: Jun 28, 11 ♂	Jan 15, 12, 21:54 #19
Here's one for you Roz. A woman without her man is nothing. A woman; without her, man is nothing. I think that's what Lyzko is getting at. Sorry for ending a sentence with a proposition.(Does that rule still exist??)

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,026 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Jan 15, 12, 21:57 #20
modafinil: Sorry for ending a sentence with a proposition.(Does that rule still exist??) absolutely not! modafinil: A woman without her man is nothing. A woman; without her, man is nothing. nice one Mod..:) Eats, shoots, and leaves?

♂

Edited by: Sidliste_Chodov Jan 15, 12, 22:04 #21

rozumiemnic:

I love people mashing up English, I make a good living from it..;)

Just wait until Poland becomes more (ahem) "multicultural", and kids start saying London-influenced stuff like

oj krewny, Ty idziesz Junction z mandemami? :D

If they don't already, that is :D

Lyzko:

If you're serious, hon, then you're sadly part of the problem rather than the solution; you're merely contributing to the continue mediocritization of the English language.

This from someone who uses "U.S. English"?? lol

♂

Jan 15, 12, 22:17 #22

Here is something I've had bookmarked for ages for no reason.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/09/neologism-thang-sc rabble-abominations

Admission into any dictionary is the first step on the road to legitimation, thus raising the question of whether mispronunciation constitutes a genuine neologism. I hate to admit it, but historically speaking the answer to that question is yes.
The Americans amongst us might wonder why an American like me is using the archaic "amongst" instead of "among" like a normal person. Language usage matters, in other words, not merely because of our need to communicate denotatively, but because of the complex, subtle array of connotative meanings conveyed by specific usages. Usage creates groups; it includes and excludes, and it hierarchizes. To wit: my use of the "-ize" suffix in "hierarchize" will brand me as a philistine to certain readers – a point to which I'll return.
Worth a read of the entire linked piece if you love our language and don't just teach it for survival.
Not too sure why I bothered to bookmark it though.

Lyzko	Jan 16, 12, 16:56 #23
Well after all, Sidliste_Chodov, which variety of English IS preferrable? US or UK? The US has become a sort of international standard (aside from at the UN) now, hasn't it? :-)))

Lyzko

Jan 16, 12, 17:04 #24

Put another way, more bluntly, how would a Yank like me, i.e. such as myself/I..., like to take beginning Polish with someone who has a Midwestern twang and a college-educated, rather than an educated NATIVE feel for Polish??! How would discerning Poles appreciate the proverbial 'Goot morrrnink, ahvveriibawdii! Tudaj, vee arrr lairnink Inglish lonkveetsch!' Even a semi-fabricated British accent over this cannot hide the basic inadequacies of a foreigner. I learned Polish from a Pole and German from a German. High school French was taught for a few semesters by an American, I'll give ya that, but she was soon fired and replaced by a Parisian ballbuster with damned high NATIVE standards!!! Best language course I ever took.

♂

Jan 16, 12, 17:24 #25

Lyzko:

The mother tongue of Chaucer and Shakespeare has been put through the ringer and it's slowly becoming an endangered language, slated for extinction, along with Het, Basque, Brushaski and a few others.

Hardly. English is going from strength to strength as the world's lingua franca. Now, if you're lamenting falling standards, that's another thing entirely.

modafinil:

Sorry for ending a sentence with a preposition.(Does that rule still exist??)

Daddy brings the wrong book upstairs for a bedtime story. Little Johhny complains, "Daddy, why did you bring that book I don't want to be read to out of up for?"

delphiandomine:

There's no such thing as a "tefl exam".

DELTA has an end-of-course exam. Damned tricky, too.

♂

Jan 16, 12, 19:37 #26

I do a lot of work throughout Europe and am very careful to grade my language

I do not use phrasal verbs and idioms, because they are a recipe for disaster

so I would say I respected someone rather than looked up to them

it means the same thing except the phrasal verb is more likely to result in misunderstanding

I believe that we are heading to a some of standard European English which is what will be taught in the future
and will be the official language for world communication

rather like Hoch Deutsch replaced the German dialects

as for the OP foreigners can teach English without any teaching certificate
nothing will happen they won't explode or anything and I have met some great French and Belgium English teachers

Lyzko

Jan 16, 12, 20:07 #27

Not exactly like Hochdeutsch vs. Mundart at all, actually. You're predicting a sort of "pod-people's" English as in 'The Invasion of the Body Snatchers'; it looks like English, sounds (more or less!) like English, but it ISN'T English, rather, some mutant, bastard, watered-down form of the original product, almost, but never AS good.

Sure, take out phrasal verbs, idioms, simplify usage to a kind of pablum for the brain, eliminate "less usual" words, e.g. 'siblings' for 'brother and sisters', get rid of the texture and subtely of English and what are you left with??? Just check out the submental pattern of prime time US television in 2012.

♂

Jan 16, 12, 20:12 #28

Lyzko:

Sure, take out phrasal verbs, idioms, simplify usage to a kind of pablum for the brain, eliminate "less usual" words, e.g. 'siblings' for 'brother and sisters', get rid of the texture and subtely of English and what are you left with??? Just check out the submental pattern of prime time US television in 2012.

I am talking about simplifying English to make it easier for global communication

if academics want to use a refined form of English good on em
in the same way you can speak the queen's English but talk in dialect amongst your friends or use your mother tongue if not a native speaker

♂

Edited by: teflcat Jan 16, 12, 20:24 #29

The fact that English has never had an equivalent of the Academie Francaise (can't be arsed to find the French diacritics) is a strength. Jonathan Swift tried to regulate the language in England in the early 18th century, and so did Sir John Cheke in the Elizabethan period. Both were ignored, and quite rightly so. Language is organic in its nature, and while we may cringe at ephemeral neologisms, we may as well p*ss in the wind if we think we can arrest the development (and I mean that) of this amazing tongue.

Lyzko

Jan 16, 12, 23:40 #30

Understood, Hythorn. Once again, check out "everyday" American English on TV from fourty to fifty years prior. The issue is NOT that language changes! It does indeed change, but is this change for the better or for the worse, objectively speaking? In the 60's, up until the beginning of the Woodstock Era, folks from ALL walks of life seemed to speak English better as there was a common standard for everybody. This was an era before Reaganism, the Mario Boat Lift, immigration gone haywire and an overforeignization of the host nation. Once upon a year, "standard" = expectation and "elitism" was NOT a dirty word of the drugged out pseudo-liberal Left, or, the Republicans, hopelessly in love with cheap labor at any cost, particularly through immigrants barely conversant in the English mother tongue.

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