Monthly income for family - Warsaw

♀

Nov 9, 11, 10:38 #61

CheFinny:

These schools didnt HAVE to do this but they did because they are run by nice people in nice areas.
The idea of a Polish school stretching themseleves to do something like this is unfathomable and, sadly, it says a lot about this society and their take,
take, take attitude towards its European neighbours.

I don't disagree with you, entirely, however, the whole immigration thing is relatively new to Poland. I am always asked about the differences in the living conditions between Poland and Canada- people I just meet will ask me "what do you like better?" I can't answer that they both have their good and their bad. But I think Poland as a whole has always had an inferiority complex compared to the western world- and are quite used to Poles leaving for greener pastures, it is a bit strange to see people come to Poland....and of course if they do then they are thought to be rich westerners.

But don't forget, Polish teachers are poorly paid- so going above and beyond the call of duty is not normal.

theKNOWLEDGE

Nov 9, 11, 12:09 #62

CheFinny:

You have just highlighted my point. I know two schools in my city that ran a class with a Polish national as the teacher so as to smooth the transition for the Polish children. This was paid for by the tax payer (including the parents of the children). This left the Poles free to use their own money differently and make life a little easier.

And you think it's right for educational resources to be diverted from the children who were there already and who will likely be there for the full period of time, unlike economic migrants? Bear in mind that there's no way a school will have a Polish assistant AND a teaching assistant - so that's the help for the other children gone. Not exactly fair, especially as it's a lifestyle choice.

CheFinny:

These schools didnt HAVE to do this but they did because they are run by nice people in nice areas.

They did it because they're obliged to, not because they're 'nice' or anything.

CheFinny:

The idea of a Polish school stretching themseleves to do something like this is unfathomable and, sadly, it says a lot about this society and their take, take, take attitude towards its European neighbours.

You do realise that most European countries would do exactly the same for a foreign child?

It's only really the UK and Scandinavia that funds such things - most other countries simply don't. I know of the German system - and there's no extra help there. The parents are expected to pay for it, just like in Poland.

♂

Nov 9, 11, 16:17 #63

pip:

But don't forget, Polish teachers are poorly paid- so going above and beyond the call of duty is not normal.

All children have the rights to education under the Polish constitution Article 70:

EDUCATION

Art.35

2. National and ethnic minorities have the right to establish educational and cultural institutions (…).

Art.53

2. Freedom of religion includes the freedom to profess or to accept a religion by personal choice, as well as to manifest individually or collectively, publicly or privately, by (…) teaching it.

3. Parents have the right to assure their children a moral and religious upbringing and teaching in accordance with their convictions.

4. The religion of a church or other legally recognized religious organization may be taught in schools, but other people's freedom of religion and conscience shall not be infringed.

Art.70

1. Everyone has the right to education. Education to 18 years of age is compulsory. The manner of fulfillment of schooling obligations is specified by law.

2. Education in public schools is without payment. The law may allow for payments for certain services provided by public institutions of higher education.

3. Parents have the right to choose schools other than public for their children. Citizens and institutions have the right to establish primary and secondary schools and institutions of higher education and educational development institutions.

4. Public authorities ensure universal and equal access to education for all citizens. To this end, they shall establish and support systems for individual financial and organizational assistance to pupils and students.

5. The autonomy of the institutions of higher education is guaranteed in accordance with principles specified by law.

EQUALITY

Article 32

(1) All persons shall be equal before the law. All persons shall have the right to equal treatment by public authorities.
(2) No one shall be discriminated against in political, social or economic life for any reason whatsoever.

♀

Nov 9, 11, 17:56 #64

fine and dandy- but doesn't mean it happens. Written on paper is not the same as in the classroom. Sure I think English speaking kids would be better treated than Roma children- but it doesn't make the transition any easier, particularly not knowing the language.
Your article doesn't say anything about every teacher having the right to earn fair wages.---which is not happening now. Polish public school teachers are poorly payed. case closed. So going above and beyond the call of duty is not the norm.

theKNOWLEDGE

Nov 9, 11, 18:05 #65

Wedle:

All children have the rights to education under the Polish constitution Article 70:

They receive education - while the Roma children are arguably discriminated against, foreign children aren't.

Wedle:

The manner of fulfillment of schooling obligations is specified by law.

I would argue that the Polish system is in accordance with the law.

Wedle:

4. Public authorities ensure universal and equal access to education for all citizens. To this end, they shall establish and support systems for individual financial and organizational assistance to pupils and students.

The education is available to foreign children (not to Roma though), and the exact meaning of "organizational assistance" would need to go to the Constitutional Tribunal to be interpreted.

As it stands, Poland is doing what the vast majority of countries do - nothing.

♂

Edited by: Wedle Nov 9, 11, 18:55 #66

theKNOWLEDGE:

As it stands, Poland is doing what the vast majority of countries do - nothing.

The

theKNOWLEDGE:

Roma children are arguably discriminated against, foreign children aren't.

Give some examples this is all new to me.

pip:

Polish public school teachers are poorly payed. case closed. So going above and beyond the call of duty is not the norm.

Like many other professions in Poland, teaching is for love not for money.

♀

Nov 9, 11, 19:59 #67

Thanks to all for your inputs.

Wedle:

Medical insurance ( Medicover/ Bupa- full cover ) do not go for the basic package

could you pls explain the difference between basic package and the full coverage in a few words? what are the important things which appear in "full coverage", and are missing in the basic package?
The company offers 2 options - Medicover or LuxMed - can you say anything about those two?

♀

Edited by: pip Nov 9, 11, 21:19 #68

juli25:

The company offers 2 options - Medicover or LuxMed - can you say anything about those two?

oh ya, my favourite subject.

These two are private clinics and hospital. They are health care for sale. Poland has a two tier system. Medicover has all new clinics and equipment, Luxmed is also good.

We don't pay for monthly healthcare anymore- rather- we pay as we go.
As a family we don't really get sick except for a cold. My youngest, however, has broken a thumb and a collar bone. About two years ago my youngest got her finger slammed in a door. I drove for about 45 minutes in traffic to get to the brand new Medicover hospital (we paid monthly) where I was promptly turned away at the door.
The doctor told me to go to the childrens hospital on the other side of the river. I asked her if she even wanted to look at the thumb to which she replied no. The childrens hospital is public and for the most part the dr.'s don't speak English. So then I drove home, called my husband in tears and he came and got my daughter. The public hospital saw her right away and put a cast on it.
The next day my husband called Medicover to get a hold of the dr. that turned us away. He asked her, calmly- not yelling, what kind of dr. she was to refuse somebody, she didn't even look at it, we pay money for service, etc etc- then called Medicover and cancelled and called her boss.
Medicover harassed us for a month trying to get us back.
So now if we have a problem we go to Luxmed. We pay when we need it only instead of a monthly fee. They have good clinics and a new hospital.
The thing about these private companies is that they can't offer full services so they send you to a public hospital depending what the problem is- so we were paying monthly to go to a public hospital.
It is health care for sale- and since I am Canadian- I am not really used to the two tier system.

Full coverage and basic package differ in things like having a baby- check their websites they should have all the info in English.

juli25Threads: 5 Posts: 19 Joined: Nov 5, 11 ♀	Nov 9, 11, 22:03 #69
Pip, thanks for your detailed answer pip: So now if we have a problem we go to Luxmed. We pay when we need it only instead of a monthly fee so I conclude that in case you come as a private customer and pay on the spot - you get much better attitude... but I assume that in case of hospitalization or surgery in their clinics - it might be too costly without insurance package?

♀

Nov 9, 11, 22:38 #70

If we have an accident than we go to a public hospital--which if we had monthly private coverage--they would send us to anyway because the luxmed or medicover hospitals are not equipped for emergencies.

Actually, now that I think about it- about 5 and a half years ago I was cutting something with an exacto knife and I slipped and cut my wrist- right where the vein is. I just missed the vein but there was a lot of blood. my husband called medicover and their ambulance came and picked me up but took me to a public hospital.

theKNOWLEDGE

Nov 10, 11, 03:27 #71

Wedle:

Give some examples this is all new to me.

You should start by investigating why there is such a high percentage of Roma children in special schools - and why many of them aren't actually intellectually handicapped, but are placed there on the basis of not speaking Polish properly. Won't happen to foreign kids, because their parents would raise hell - but it's one reason why the Roma are socially excluded.

pip:

If we have an accident than we go to a public hospital--which if we had monthly private coverage--they would send us to anyway because the luxmed or medicover hospitals are not equipped for emergencies.

I wonder - does paying for Medicover/Luxmed get you to jump the queues in the public hospitals?

WedleThreads: 24 Posts: 786 Joined: Sep 27, 11 ♂	Nov 13, 11, 13:53 #72
theKNOWLEDGE: I wonder - does paying for Medicover/Luxmed get you to jump the queues in the public hospitals? Only IMC cover will get you to the front of the queue or knowing the specialist.

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Polska, Polonia, Poland	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 02:58 / May 27
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com