Polish Residency Cards. Is there a Permanent ID card for Foreigners?

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Oct 10, 09, 09:29 #1

I obtained a Karta Pobytu back in 2006 which was time-limited to my adres zameldowego czasowego - both of which will run out next year. Anticipating Polish bureaucracy, I want to look into this now.

Upgrading my adres zamel. won't be a problem, as I own my own property and can declare a regular income, but how about this ID card? Is there a Permanent ID card for Foreigners? Is this temporary card I have still issued? Is there any other option than going for Polish nationality (shudder at the thought!)

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Edited by: mafketis Oct 10, 09, 09:55 #2

The only answers to your questions that matter are those given by the particular office you'll be applying to (and also partly depend on info you haven't volunteered like your nationality). Plan to spend half a day (or more!) waiting in line as soon as possible at the office that will renew your card, bring a Polish friend if your Polish is not up to dealing with Polish legalese. Ask for info in writing.

Any info volunteered here (except for links to legal regulations in Polish) will be largely irrelevant and not necessarily those of the office you'll actually be dealing with.

There is a permanent residence card but it requires (I think) at least 5 years of residency (among other requirements). I got it about 5 years ago but regulations might have changed between then and now.

RichfilthThreads: 8 Posts: 327 Joined: Mar 8, 09 ♂	Oct 10, 09, 11:42 #3
thanks mafketis - yes, I'm all too aware of the inconsistencies between bureaux. It's more a general enquiry as to whether this permanent residency card still exists, and if anyone has recently applied for it. Specifically, I'm Engish (therefore EU) and working in Warsaw.

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Edited by: mafketis Oct 10, 09, 12:24 #4

You might have a look here:

http://www.udsc.gov.pl/

there is an English option.

Note a quick look indicates that EU citizens are sometimes treated as 'foreigners' and at other times not.

Especially look here:

http://www.udsc.gov.pl/FREQUENTLY,ASKED,QUESTIONS,809.html

question number 6 is the one you want.

Usual caveats apply:

1. Just because it's an official government website doesn't mean it's up to date.

2. Just becasue it's official government policy doesn't mean regional offices are up to date.

3. The English version of regulations has no legal force, only the Polish version is recognized when there are mistranslations or discrepancies between the Polish and English versions (and there often are).

etc etc etc

scottie1113Threads: 11 Posts: 873 Joined: Mar 13, 07 ♂	Oct 10, 09, 13:58 #5
mafketis: Plan to spend half a day (or more!) waiting in line I've never waited more than 20 minutes and usually it's been more like 10.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Oct 10, 09, 14:28 #6

Richfilth:

Specifically, I'm Engish (therefore EU) and working in Warsaw.

All you'll have to do is renew the residence permit - and as you've already got one, it should be a complete formality. There's no ID card issued for EU citizens (unlike Estonia, which gives EU citizens a nice ID card that's suitable for travelling within the EU!) - just a bit of paper with a stamp. Likewise, when it's renewed, just head back to the relevant city office and get another 5 years of registraton.

There may be the option of going for permanent residence (and getting the appropriate piece of paper confirming this) - but I believe you'll have to have 5 years of living here before you can apply for this.

All in all, should be painless. At least in Poznan, they appear to not be particularly bothered about EU citizens anymore and make it easy fo them.

RichfilthThreads: 8 Posts: 327 Joined: Mar 8, 09 ♂	Oct 10, 09, 14:36 #7
delphi - the issue here is that when this card runs out, I won't really have any effective ID in Poland other than my passport, which I'm not too keen to carry around with me on a daily basis. I'd imagine it will be almost impossible to do any banking, bureaucracy or even post office pick-ups without an ID card here, let alone something involving the law.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Oct 10, 09, 14:46 #8

Richfilth:

delphi - the issue here is that when this card runs out, I won't really have any effective ID in Poland other than my passport, which I'm not too keen to carry around with me on a daily basis. I'd imagine it will be almost impossible to do any banking, bureaucracy or even post office pick-ups without an ID card here, let alone something involving the law.

Oh, tell me about it.

Unfortunately, the Polish state decided that upon implementing the new regulations for EU citizens, a piece of paper with a stamp would suffice - probably because most EU citizens except the Brits and Irish already have ID cards and so there's no point duplicating them. It's a fair point - ID cards don't have any use here in an electronic sense, so there's no point giving them to people who don't actually need them. Unfortunately, us Brits and the Irish got screwed by that decision.

I know it sucks, I have to carry my passport too for these things - but unfortunately, that's the way it is. The only real option if you want to get a card is to take Polish citizenship - or, if you really want one, get yourself an Estonian ID card which are quite easy to obtain.

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Oct 10, 09, 19:31 #9

delphiandomine:

if you really want one, get yourself an Estonian ID card which are quite easy to obtain.

How does one go about getting an Estonian ID card? I've been thinking about getting a new British driving licence so that I have some valid ID which can easily fit in my wallet but am actually fairly attached to my old paper version. I carry an expired Karta Pobytu with my driving licence when I'm driving but the rest of the time I don't bother carrying ID. Generally most places are fine with accepting a credit card as proof of ID.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Oct 10, 09, 20:12 #10

Harry:

How does one go about getting an Estonian ID card?

As far as I can tell, they have a very similar system to Poland in terms of needing to register somewhere - but, the crucial difference is that you can do everything by post, and there's no nonsense with title deeds to the flat or needing to prove why you're here, just you have to prove that the landlord will let you register there (so a letter is enough). There's also no need to tell them anything (or get any pieces of paper) until your inital 3 months is up - so they have absolutely no way of checking.

The whole thing seems to be thought out quite well - and the crucial thing is that the EU ID card is valid for intra-EU travel too.

Might be a crazy way to do things, but if you could find someone willing to register you there and are willing to make the trip up to Estonia to give the fingerprints and pick the card up, it might very well be worthwhile.

Pictures -

Harry:

I carry an expired Karta Pobytu with my driving licence when I'm driving but the rest of the time I don't bother carrying ID.

Could you not just get Polish citizenship?

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Oct 11, 09, 15:28 #11

delphiandomine:

if you could find someone willing to register you there and are willing to make the trip up to Estonia to give the fingerprints and pick the card up, it might very well be worthwhile.

Seeing as I may very well have to get citizenship from another EU nation precisely because I refuse to be fingerprinted for a British passport, there really is bugger all chance of me giving my finger prints to get something as useless as an ID card.

delphiandomine:

Could you not just get Polish citizenship?

Yes I can, very easily, I've been here for more than long enough. The point is that I don't want to get Polish citizenship!

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Oct 11, 09, 16:02 #12

Harry:

Seeing as I may very well have to get citizenship from another EU nation precisely because I refuse to be fingerprinted for a British passport, there really is bugger all chance of me giving my finger prints to get something as useless as an ID card.

Hang on, I thought they weren't fingerprinting people for British passports? I thought this was one (among many) cockups with the biometric passports, that all the data was simply a reflection of the photo as opposed being 'true' biometrics?

(mind you, I agree with the sentiment of not wanting to give them a thing)

Harry:

The point is that I don't want to get Polish citizenship!

Much cheaper passport renewals though, have you seen the disgraceful prices charged by the British Embassy for passports?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 11, 09, 17:00 #13
delphiandomine: Hang on, I thought they weren't fingerprinting people for British passports? As far as I know, despite what Brown said last week the IPS are still planning to add fingerprints to the list of required details.

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Oct 11, 09, 21:02 #14

I renewed my passport last month and at no point was I asked for fingerprints, and I don't believe I've ever given them to any agency either. So no, the new ones don't store it.
I agree with the sentiment on Embassy fees though. Having a stony-faced old bint ignore me for 20 minutes at a desk, ignore all the extra papers I'd been told I needed, and then charge me over 120quid for the privilege of coming back in two weeks and being ignored again, really makes me patriotic.

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Sep 28, 10, 17:26 #15

Merged thread:
Residence Card

Both my old-school EU residency card, and my Zameldowane Czasowego have expired, and I'm having a nightmare trying to find out how to renew them.

I went to the local Ratusz for a 'zameldowac sie', and I was told I could only do so for three months, even though I'm the owner of the flat. This is because I don't have a Polish ID card. Apparently, this is to give me some time to GET an ID card.

Then I went to the Office for Foreigners (Warsaw, ul. Dluga) and was told that EU citizens can't have an ID card of any type; they're not issued any more.

I'm not queuing every three months to re-register myself in an apartment I've owned for half a decade; is there any solution to this? Is there such a thing as an ID card for EU residents?

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Sep 28, 10, 18:22 #16

What you have to do now is apply for permanent residency - the idea is that EU citizens, after their 5 year permit expires, should apply for permanent residency rather than applying to renew their temporary EU citizen residence permit.

The nice thing is that once you get the permanent residence certificate, you'll be able to register yourself permanently to the address rather than having to go back after 5 years :)

RichfilthThreads: 8 Posts: 327 Joined: Mar 8, 09 ♂	Sep 28, 10, 18:25 #17
any idea on how that's done, delphi? I know I need to prove I've been here five years, but the woman at the Urzad said categorically that without an ID card, it can't be done. I only have my UK Passport and Driver's Licence.

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Sep 28, 10, 18:34 #18

Richfilth:

any idea on how that's done, delphi? I know I need to prove I've been here five years, but the woman at the Urzad said categorically that without an ID card, it can't be done.

It should just be the same process as when applying for the EU residence permit in the first place - as I recall, you go to the Foreigners Office, give them whatever nonsense they want and get the certificate (I can't remeber the exact name - card of permanent stay, or something?) - then go back to the Urzad Miasta and they will register you indefinitely on the basis of the certificate.

But be quick - I think there's a 6 month time limit upon the EU residence permit expiring.

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Oct 22, 10, 08:56 #19

After years of using a temporary residence card I have just received my "floppy paper of long stay"

Anyone know if I can carry this as identity? The lady in the office said "you can keep it in your passport" and I didn't think at the time to ask if she was implying I still had to carry my passport as well.

Appearance-wise, it's paper, the size of an opened passport and can't be laminated. bada-bing.

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Oct 22, 10, 12:03 #20

cjj:

Anyone know if I can carry this as identity? The lady in the office said "you can keep it in your passport" and I didn't think at the time to ask if she was implying I still had to carry my passport as well.

Nope, it's not valid as an identity document. Even the non-EU Karta Pobytu (despite looking like it) isn't valid identification.

The lack of a proper ID card for permanent residents is one of the most stupid things about Poland.

Having said this, in practice, an EU driving licence is more than enough within Poland.

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Oct 22, 10, 13:11 #21

delphiandomine:

Having said this, in practice, an EU driving licence is more than enough within Poland.

Unless you are involved in a traffic incident. Recently I had a bump and didn't have my ID. The cop said it caused problems cos my DL is British (EU) but doesn't have my Polish address on it.

What bugs me is the bloody size of my 10 year id. When I was only temporary (5 years) it was a decent credit-card size. Now it's the size of my passport and is just a bit of paper (got it laminated myself).

The problem with having no Polish id card is that sometimes it can be a pain getting credit.

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Edited by: cjj Oct 22, 10, 14:47 #22

Trevek:

What bugs me is the bloody size of my 10 year id. When I was only temporary (5 years) it was a decent credit-card size. Now it's the size of my passport and is just a bit of paper (got it laminated myself).

Well this is exactly the problem, isn't it -- the k.p. was wallet-sized like it was a d.o. replacement. This abomination looks like a page from a passport - the page with the photo and all the data and numbers..

Curses. I have a polish driving license though ... I really don't want to carry my passport around with me all the time -- I don't want it to get dog-eared.

Er, about the laminating ... Ms Urz. Woj. explicitly told me I shouldn't get it laminated ...

p.s. by edit. Forgot to ask - anyone else who has one of these things. Does it have a termin ? Mine is valid for 10 years ... silly me to expect something open-ended.

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Oct 22, 10, 15:19 #23

Trevek:

The problem with having no Polish id card is that sometimes it can be a pain getting credit.

The only reason that I'll be getting the piece of paper that they now give to EU citizens is because one can only register a car here for as long as one is legally here and that would mean that I'd need to re-register my car every six months!

I'm seriously considering applying for residency here as an Australian citizen just so I can get one of those nice credit card sized ID cards.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Oct 22, 10, 15:32 #24
Harry: just so I can get one of those nice credit card sized ID cards. they are very handy. one card to solve most problems.

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Edited by: Richfilth Oct 25, 10, 21:11 #25

Yes, I'm still dealing with the office here regarding this whole process. I've got the form, to be completed in quadriplicate (really!), and the question that's got me stumped is "rysopis". They want my eye colour and height, and now they want a general physical description. Szczuply, przystojny... what are they expecting of me?

Oh, that and the rather charming 1zl processing fee. This whole process has changed a bit in the last five years.

AvalonThreads: 3 Posts: 814 Joined: Sep 11, 07 ♂	Oct 25, 10, 22:46 #26
Richfilth what are they expecting of me? Wait until you get the police visit!!!!....they just turn up. No warning or appointment. Scary.

RichfilthThreads: 8 Posts: 327 Joined: Mar 8, 09 ♂	Oct 25, 10, 22:55 #27
Yes, I've had that before. Something to do with me abandoning my Syrena Bosto in a Czech car park.... Still, I have no idea what word they want me to put in this section. Kaukaski?

ThreegigsThreads: - Posts: 22 Joined: Apr 17, 08 ♂	Oct 26, 10, 01:51 #28
delphiandomine: Even the non-EU Karta Pobytu (despite looking like it) isn't valid identification Whoa, that's news to me. The Post Office, Długa street and most other places I've needed to show ID accepted it, no problem. Actually... I haven't needed my passport as ID ever since I got my first Karta... even got my two-year Karta using the first as ID.

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Oct 26, 10, 09:14 #29

delphiandomine:

Even the non-EU Karta Pobytu (despite looking like it) isn't valid identification.

Define "valid identification" I've often used mine as ID (usually when asked for 'dowód osobisty'). The few objections (wanting a passport) were easily come by my reminding the person asking that the karta was given by the Polish government and my passport wasn't.... (maybe not much of an argument, but it's always worked for me).

OlafThreads: 8 Posts: 1,369 Joined: Oct 29, 09 ♂	Oct 26, 10, 09:58 #30
I'd say Karta Pobytu is a valid ID. This comes out of the list of documents perceived as IDs. Passport or national ID for Polish citizen and passport and Karta Pobytu for foreigner (also with another document of stay etc.)

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