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Polish students among best in OECD


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borodin  Dec 8, 10, 13:47    #1
Polish students are better educated than the average in OECD states, shows the Programme for International Student Assessment 2009 (PISA).

PISA examines 15-year-old students’ capabilities in reading, mathematics and science literacy that they acquired during compulsory schooling. According to the assessment, Poland comes ninth in reading, following Finland and Korea. Among the students who managed to complete the most difficult tasks, both in Poland and in other OECD countries, there are twice as many girls as boys.

In the past nine years Poland managed to reduce the number of pupils who did not do well in reading. Currently, only 15 percent of Polish students have difficulties reading, which is the lowest number in Europe. The number of pupils who scored low in natural science has also decreased to 13 percent. Mathematics, however, remains an Achilles’ heel of every fifth Polish student.

As many as 65 industralised counties, which constitute 90 percent of the world economy, participated in PISA 2009 study carried out in March last year.


(I can't post a link but it's from thenews.pl)


Eventually Poland's result is 15. place in the world

oecd.org /dataoecd /54/12/46643496.pdf
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: zetigrek  Dec 8, 10, 13:59    #2
17. USA
19. Sweden
20. Germany
21. Ireland
22. France
24. Denmark
25. Great Britain
34. Czech Rep.

I think that those tests are **** worth...
borodin  Dec 8, 10, 14:01    #3
Yes, of course, OECD results are fake...
zetigrekThreads: 59
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Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 10, 14:04    #4
borodin:
Yes, of course, OECD results are fake...


They induced the bs reform of education in 1999, so yes it must be fake.
jwojcieThreads: 3
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Joined: Jan 3, 09 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 10, 15:16    #5
Actually zetigrek it wouldn't suprise me much if Polish students move up in those test.
Basically, regardless of eduaction reform there is important factor which changed in recent years wich is lower number of pupils due to demographic issues. It really makes a difference between 20 and 35 number of students in the class....
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Dec 8, 10, 15:20    #6
zetigrek:
I think that those tests are **** worth...


Because - I think the tests are measuring pure knowledge. They're not measuring things like problem solving - so Poland ends up artifically high because the education system here is very good at teaching "facts".
elektrykThreads: -
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Joined: Dec 6, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 10, 15:21    #7
zetigrek:
it must be fake.

Why? Numbers never lie.
f stopThreads: 33
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Joined: Dec 9, 09  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		Edited by: f stop  Dec 8, 10, 15:24    #8
I'm surprised US is ahead of Germany

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/54/12/46643496.pdf
WroclawThreads: 77
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Joined: Apr 1, 06  Pictures: 3 ♂ [Moderator] 		 Dec 8, 10, 15:32    #9
borodin:
PISA examines 15-year-old students’ capabilities in reading,


this means nothing. a few months ago i was reading about brits who are low on the list of required reading, but top of the list for non-required reading.
elektrykThreads: -
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Joined: Dec 6, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 10, 15:32    #10
delphiandomine:
They're not measuring things like problem solving

Maybe not directly but on the subscales you will find "Integrate and Interpret" "Reflect and Evaluate". Solving mathematical tasks is also problem solving.
HarryThreads: 62
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Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Dec 8, 10, 16:10    #11
Wroclaw:
non-required reading.

Is that like one-handed reading?
WroclawThreads: 77
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Joined: Apr 1, 06  Pictures: 3 ♂ [Moderator] 		 Dec 8, 10, 17:03    #12
for those who care: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100067092/british-schoolch ildren-now-ranked-23rd-in-the-world

it does mention Poland.
zetigrekThreads: 59
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Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 10, 17:40    #13
She claims the solution to the under-achievement of poor children is “redistributive economic policies”.

from: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100067092/british-schoolch ildren-now-ranked-23rd-in-the-world-down-from-12th-in-2000/

The only reason kids underperform in exams is lack of motivation in home, not how many money goverment will spend for education... it's sad that Brits (and Americans as I know by reading other articles on this subject) don't see it.
borodin  Dec 8, 10, 17:53    #14
It's rather because those countries are overrun with non-white people
zetigrekThreads: 59
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Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 10, 18:02    #15
borodin:
It's rather because those countries are overrun with non-white people


Do you suggest that white are always best students and never bad?
skysoulmateThreads: 41
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Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 10, 20:09    #16
zetigrek:
I think that those tests are **** worth...


Are you saying Poland should rank higher or lower? Don't follow your quote??
southernThreads: 116
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Joined: May 17, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 10, 20:12    #17
Probably polish studenta cheated again.Juwt kidding.Anyway these tests have more to do with national IQ capacity.
zetigrekThreads: 59
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Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 10, 20:14    #18
skysoulmate:
Are you saying Poland should rank higher or lower? Don't follow your quote??


lower.
southernThreads: 116
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Joined: May 17, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 10, 20:16    #19
Since polish and Germanic IQ are top in Europe,I don't expect any different results.This is what I am telling the natives too.Whatever you do...
hague1cmaeronThreads: 21
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Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: hague1cmaeron  Dec 9, 10, 11:04    #20
jwojcie:
Actually zetigrek it wouldn't suprise me much if Polish students move up in those test.
Basically, regardless of eduaction reform there is important factor which changed in recent years wich is lower number of pupils due to demographic issues. It really makes a difference between 20 and 35 number of students in the class....


No actually class size has very little bearing on good performance, teacher quality is infinitely more important.

delphiandomine:
Because - I think the tests are measuring pure knowledge. They're not measuring things like problem solving - so Poland ends up artifically high because the education system here is very good at teaching "facts".


Actually it is the other way around. The tests are mostly concerned with problem solving skills. In case you ask, I know all this because I have been recently doing some education research for my boss-and methodology research not that fun):
nikt  Dec 9, 10, 12:37    #21
hague1cmaeron:
I have been recently doing some education research for my boss-and methodology research not that fun):


and what are your conclussions?

hague1cmaeron:
No actually class size has very little bearing on good performance, teacher quality is infinitely more important.


Actually size has a great deal on good performance because teacher can check the knowledge of pupils more frequently + the class is more calm and quite. In the other hand it's a myth that class sizes changed in greater way... or did they? I see no difference between 31 and 25 pupils. The difference would be seen if in each class there would be not more than 20 pupils.
VarsovianThreads: 91
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Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂ 		 Dec 9, 10, 12:50    #22
One major advantage Polish middle schools have over UK schools is overall size.

At age 15 the typical British child is in a school of 1300 pupils (they're all called students and young adults nowadays) whereas the typical Polish child is in a school of 350.

Result: control, or a lack of it.

Naturally, there are many other factors too ...
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Dec 9, 10, 12:53    #23
Varsovian:
At age 15 the typical British child is in a school of 1300 pupils (they're all called students and young adults nowadays) whereas the typical Polish child is in a school of 350.


But the school of 1300 is far better equipped and is far more professionally run than an average Polish middle school is. Let's not forget about the complete lack of ability in Polish schools to discipline children.
nikt  Dec 9, 10, 13:01    #24
Varsovian:

At age 15 the typical British child is in a school of 1300 pupils (they're all called students and young adults nowadays) whereas the typical Polish child is in a school of 350.


In my gimnazjum was something like 850 kids...
12345  Dec 9, 10, 15:49    #25
I just wanted to let you know that Polish students are very skilled in problem solving.
12345  Dec 9, 10, 15:53    #26
Are you kidding me? You must come to US to see a total chaos in public schools.
zetigrekThreads: 59
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Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 9, 10, 16:04    #27
12345:
Are you kidding me? You must come to US to see a total chaos in public schools.


No one sane sends his children to US public school...
BolleThreads: 3
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Joined: Apr 29, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 9, 10, 18:15    #28
zetigrek:
No one sane sends his children to US public school...


There are good and bad public schools in the US.

It all depends on the region and racial demographics. It's a fact that overall whites perform better in the classroom than latinos/blacks.
hague1cmaeronThreads: 21
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Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: hague1cmaeron  Dec 11, 10, 04:09    #29
nikt:
and what are your conclussions?


They are mostly problem based. These tests have been only in operation in Poland for about 10 years, and the biggest adjustment has been undertaken by the teachers. They have to adopt their method of teaching in order to enable the students to learn how to approach these tests. Each country's representative has a bit of a say in how the tests are conducted. Overall I would be inclined to say that they are quite reflective of reality.
OgienThreads: 15
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Joined: Jul 22, 09 ♂ 		 Dec 11, 10, 07:05    #30
zetigrek:

No one sane sends his children to US public school...


There are some really bad US public schools but at the same time there are some very good US public schools.

I went to a great public school in America and I guarantee the average student there is probably more intelligent than at least 90% of European students.

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