Shocking! Test standards in Polish schools.

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,026 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Jan 30, 12, 16:24 #151
Harry: There are only two indefinite articles in the quote! I thought I counted 4 but there ya go. Anyway..more to the point.....if Stu's company wants people to talk on the phone why is he complaining about their written English?

StuThreads: 27 Posts: 1,109 Joined: Mar 31, 10 ♂	Edited by: Stu Jan 30, 12, 16:39 #152
rozumiemnic: why is he complaining about their written English? Well ... maybe because they have to write something in ticketing systems ... ? And it should be understandable for their colleagues ... . And for me ... . Maybe they have to respond to the customer by email? Just a few ideas ... .

♀

Edited by: rozumiemnic Jan 30, 12, 16:52 #153

Stu:

Just a few ideas ...

Oh OK I see, fair enough.
Maybe advertise for someone with FCE, as well as a degree, they must exist....
Matura test for English seems a bit low for this kind of thing it is true. But then isn't it only equivalent to GCSE? Or will that start another debate?
I wonder how well a British kid with GCSE French say, could do.
No doubt that school test standards are not great anywhere.

teflcatThreads: 6 Posts: 1,076 Joined: May 29, 11 ♂	Jan 30, 12, 16:57 #154
rozumiemnic: Maybe advertise for someone with FCE? I'd suggest CAE. Although FCE is a great all-round intermediate level exam, the speaking element doesn't require much for a pass. If Stu insists on a B or an A at CAE, he can be pretty sure he'll get someone who can answer the phone and write e-mails.

a.k.

Jan 30, 12, 16:59 #155

rozumiemnic:

Maybe advertise for someone with FCE, as well as a degree, they must exist....

More adequate CPE or at least CAE.

rozumiemnic:

Matura test for English seems a bit low for this kind of thing it is true. But then isn't it only equivalent to GCSE? Or will that start another debate?

I'm sorry to tell you that but egzamin gimnazjalny (Stu's wife is checking it) is the equivalent of GCSE. Matura would be the "equivalent" of A-levels but take into account that Matura is devided into two levels: basic and extended. Basic is indeed basic :)

Lyzko	Jan 30, 12, 17:02 #156
Just a quick observation here, guys! Standardized testing, whether it be for English, foreign lang., math, science etc.. rarely measure true ability, but merely rote memorization of fromulae. Plenty of people can learn a foreign language without relying on outmoded and repetitive examinations, often designed by bureaucrats, NOT teachers.

a.k.	Jan 30, 12, 17:05 #157
Lyzko: but merely rote memorization of fromulae. In the case of languages rote learning is good.

Lyzko	Jan 30, 12, 17:09 #158
But not mind-numbing drill, a.k.! The latter simply stresses repetition, once again, instead of functional ability in non-scholastic situations, e.g. going to the store, an unexpected encounter/altercation on the street etc....

teflcatThreads: 6 Posts: 1,076 Joined: May 29, 11 ♂	Jan 30, 12, 17:10 #159
Lyzko: altercation on the street etc.... Can I sit in when you teach this next time? Sounds like fun.

a.k.	Jan 30, 12, 17:11 #160
Lyzko: e.g. going to the store, an unexpected encounter/altercation on the street etc.... But that's how exactly Polish Nowa Matura exam looks like now. Especially spoken part when you get role playing tasks.

a.k.	Jan 30, 12, 17:13 #161
Lyzko: altercation On matura it's called "negotiations" ;)

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 30, 12, 17:22 #162
a.k.: Matura would be the "equivalent" of A-levels I've taught both and can tell you that matura is far from the equivalent of A levels.

teflcatThreads: 6 Posts: 1,076 Joined: May 29, 11 ♂	Jan 30, 12, 17:23 #163
Harry: I've taught both and can tell you that matura is far from the equivalent of A levels. By a country mile.

Lyzko	Jan 30, 12, 17:23 #164
A.K. in the US, we call it "role playing" too:-)

Lyzko	Jan 30, 12, 17:24 #165
Anytime, Telcat:-) LOL

a.k.	Jan 30, 12, 17:38 #166
Harry: I've taught both and can tell you that matura is far from the equivalent of A levels. That's why I put equivalent among these signs "" Harry: equivalent of A levels. I didn't know that there is A-level English as a Foreign Language exam.

Lyzko	Jan 30, 12, 17:56 #167
Indeed there are and I believe they're connected with First Cambridge as well as BEC (Business English Certificate), the latter piloted in Italy, if memory serves me correctly:-:)) German has Erstes Sprachdiplom connected with the Goethe-Institutes throughout the world!

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Jan 30, 12, 20:36 #168
a.k.: I didn't know that there is A-level English as a Foreign Language exam. Yes. Big in foreign cities that have British Schools.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 30, 12, 20:50 #169
JonnyM: Yes. Big in foreign cities that have British Schools. I seem to remember an article about a Welsh-speaking student making claims about racial discrimination when she wasn't allowed to count her A level in English as a foreign language towards her university entry points requirement.

a.k.	Jan 30, 12, 21:17 #170
Harry: I seem to remember an article about a Welsh-speaking student making claims about racial discrimination when she wasn't allowed to count her A level in English as a foreign language towards her university entry points requirement. It's weird that Poles who live in the UK are allowed to take GSCE of Polish as a foreign language... shame, real shame!

♂ [Suspended]

Jan 30, 12, 21:57 #171

a.k.:

It's weird that Poles who live in the UK are allowed to take GSCE of Polish as a foreign language... shame, real shame!

It's quite normal - but the one crucial difference is that universities won't regard it as serious. It's impossible to explain quickly - but if you do something "too easy" - it won't be taken into consideration later.

What about Lithuanians/Germans doing Polish as a second language? Isn't it the same for them?

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Edited by: JonnyM Jan 30, 12, 22:06 #172
a.k.: It's weird that Poles who live in the UK are allowed to take GSCE of Polish as a foreign language... shame, real shame! The course actually involves them studying Pollsh literature in English translation, so not by any means an easy option.

a.k.	Jan 30, 12, 22:14 #173
JonnyM: The course actually involves them studying Pollsh literature in English translation, so not by any means an easy option. I've check it and according to various forums it's a regular exam of foreign language involving: speaking, reading, writting and listening, not a Polish literature course. I don't need to say that Poles usually get A* from that exam.

♂

Jan 30, 12, 22:17 #174

a.k.:

I've check it and according to various forums it's a regular exam of foreign language involving: speaking, reading, writting and listening, not a Polish literature course. I don't need to say that Poles usually get A* from that exam.

Check it a bit more carefully (and make sure you're checking the right GCSE band) - unless they've dumbed it down there is always a literature component in the higher band. And you might be interested to know that some Polish kids do not achieve a pass grade.

♀

Jan 31, 12, 00:02 #175

pam:

the examples you presented are understandable. the level of english is poor, however i dont know what standard of english students are expected to reach when they finish school in poland. in the uk you study a foreign language from the age of 11 to 16. its only 5 years, and in my opinion its too late to start. i will show one of your examples to a colleague at work tomorrow, just out of interest. would like to know how the uk system would grade it for a comparison.although its slightly deviating from the topic, you would also have to consider how good the teacher is and the ability of the students. not everyone is as fortunate as you are to have an aptitude for languages.

Actually French is only compulsary from 11 to 14 (years 7 to 9) after that most drop languages as they are not deemed useful.

As for the paragraphs the OP posted, they were not gramatically correct, but understandable at the same time, seems like grammar isnt top of the list for teachers in Polish schools.

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