If you were to compere Polish Unis and Unis/Colleges in your country...

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Dec 5, 10, 11:27 #1

There are many threads where people ask is it good idea to study in Poland, so I think such thread may help to make the right choice. I'm also curiouse how does higher education abroad look like, is it really flawless as we in Poland see it? Are all American, British and German unis so good or it also happens that some college or faculties don't come up to the (student's, market's, standard's) expectations?

So discuss ;)

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Dec 5, 10, 11:41 #2

zetigrek:

Are all American, British and German unis so good or it also happens that some college or faculties don't come up to the (student's, market's, standard's) expectations?

i know and have known plenty of Polish students who have an arrangement to go abroad.
i'm thinking of those students who don't have access to certain equipment etc.
these students might be at the higher level.

so, other unis have better equipment, which makes studies easier.
the students have more free will and can argue against the professors book.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Dec 5, 10, 12:22 #3
Yep, lack of equipment is one of those negative sides of fee-free education... btw. I'm looking forward for comments of those users who are Polish and graduated abroad (maybe Mr Havok can partake in the discussion?)

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Dec 5, 10, 13:12 #4
zetigrek: lack of equipment is one of those negative sides Yes. But it's getting better now (with EU-money). At least compared to Scandinavia, Polish univ focus more on learning details by heart, than understanding the big structures and principles. It also depends on what we are talking about. There are always small private institutions who are only interested in making a lot of money.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Dec 5, 10, 13:14 #5
SzwedwPolsce: There are always small private institutions who are only interested in making a lot of money. Noy only private unfortunately...

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,959 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Dec 5, 10, 15:25 #6
The problem everywhere is that the incompetent middle class offsprings lower the level of the education due to heritage rights.I propose hanging of the offsprings though it is a romantic idea.Otherwise it is the same sh1t everywhere.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 5, 10, 15:31 #7
zetigrek: Noy only private unfortunately... The sulking about how many departments didn't "open" their studies this year shows this. If you ask me, we should only be funding the courses that the country needs. There's no need to have more than what, 10 people graduating from Albanian philology every year, so why fund more? The rest should be left to the private sector.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Dec 5, 10, 15:46 #8
delphiandomine: There's no need to have more than what, 10 people graduating from Albanian philology every year, so why fund more? The rest should be left to the private sector. exactly.

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Dec 5, 10, 15:50 #9

zetigrek:

exactly.

The problem is that the public universities realise that the more departments they have, the more influence they have - and the whole circle continues. Some of the courses offered in public universities here are a complete joke - and the amount of graduates is shocking as well.

One proposal I saw was for the funding to be competitive - so that every educational institution, both public and private would have to compete for funding. It makes a lot of sense - the public universities shouldn't be soaking up cash if their courses are terrible.

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Edited by: zetigrek Dec 5, 10, 15:54 #10

delphiandomine:

The problem is that the public universities realise that the more departments they have, the more influence they have

no. Its that the more money they get. If you're fluent in Polish I can't find fot you an article about that and what's wrong with Polish education.

delphiandomine:

One proposal I saw was for the funding to be competitive - so that every educational institution, both public and private would have to compete for funding. It makes a lot of sense - the public universities shouldn't be soaking up cash if their courses are terrible.

But there is an academic lobby which block every attemp of reform.

landoraThreads: 1 Posts: 191 Joined: Oct 14, 09 ♀	Dec 5, 10, 15:55 #11
We definitely don't need hundreds of private "higher schools of journalism, psychology and peeling potatoes". The degrees from such schools should not be equal with public universities ones.

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Dec 5, 10, 16:00 #12

I studied in Poland and in the US. There are general differences in the systems, for instance in US you have more flexibility with your schedule, you can switch major easily, but I think the main difference are the professors.

In Poland I had all kinds of crazy jerks and lazy bums, and a few really good ones. The crazies would make you learn every single detail without caring if you really get the big picture and lowering your grade for each insignificant mistake. They were usually men and usually unattractive and arrogant (wearing a mini skirt to the exam could actually help your grade). The lazy buns would come to class, dictate something, you learned it by heart and said it during your exam. Waste of time. The great professors I had were sparse, but they really taught you things, helped you understand the subject and had you draw conclusions. I remember really looking forward to those classes.

Now comparing that to American professors, they are more willing to teach you and are more approachable because they are evaluated by the students, and for as long as they are not in a tenure track positions it really matters. It's less learning by heart and more abut the big picture and making connections. At the ens of the semester you usually have good general knowledge of the subject.

I wish polish professor could be evaluated by the students and peers more. It would bring some of them back to earth maybe.

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Dec 5, 10, 18:35 #13

Well, I applied for a job at the local uni and it took them from may to October (a week into the semester) to turn me down. When i wrote to complain about being messed about, they said they had wanted to employ me but didn't know how many students they were going to have.

My experience of UK system of student recruitment and application to uni suggests a British uni would have known a hell of a lot sooner than the first week of the semester.

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Dec 5, 10, 18:39 #14

Trevek:

My experience of UK system of student recruitment and application to uni suggests a British uni would have known a hell of a lot sooner than the first week of the semester.

It's because they don't apply for university here until after they get the results. It's also because there's no central admissions agency, so universities actually don't have much idea until the start of the year.

Quite why there isn't one centralised system is beyond me.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Dec 5, 10, 19:13 #15
Marynka11: The crazies would make you learn every single detail without caring if you really get the big picture and lowering your grade for each insignificant mistake. This is exactly how it is in many departments in PL.

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Dec 5, 10, 19:21 #16

Trevek:

it took them from may to October ... they said they had wanted to employ me but didn't know how many students they were going to have

Yes, that sounds like bulsht on their part - more likely everyone was on holiday for the Summer.

Unfortunately unis in Polad are graded on the basis of research and publications rather than quality of teaching. Until that changes, there won't be any improvement for the students.

talli

Dec 5, 10, 19:47 #17

southern:

The problem everywhere is that the incompetent middle class offsprings lower the level of the education due to heritage rights.I propose hanging of the offsprings though it is a romantic idea.Otherwise it is the same sh1t everywhere.

No we do'nt we bring an "air of charm" to everyone we meet, we debate with respectablility and dont fart in public . Oh and by the way its the Upper class that have heritage rights not the middle class. Got to keep these manderins at bay.

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Edited by: Trevek Dec 5, 10, 20:24 #18

delphiandomine:

Quite why there isn't one centralised system is beyond me.

Because even 'they' can't work how to clog up something like that with bureacracy?

MrBubbles:

Unfortunately unis in Polad are graded on the basis of research and publications rather than quality of teaching. Until that changes, there won't be any improvement for the students.

Yeah. One of their biggest worries was a) I didn't have a PhD and b) even if I did one within 3 years I'd be too old to become a professor.

so, imagine a student conversation: "Hey, my teacher is well qualified, has wide-ranging experience and can teach some useful, interesting things."

"Huh, that's nothing!y teacher is young enough to become a professor in time!"

"Kurda! I'm so jealous!"

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Edited by: aphrodisiac Dec 5, 10, 23:42 #19

zetigrek:

is it really flawless as we in Poland see it? Are all American, British and German unis so good or it also happens that some college or faculties don't come up to the (student's, market's, standard's) expectations?

YES to the first one, NO to the second one.

I finished one of the top 20s in the world and it was a great experience. Nothing to compare to any Polish education really.

Rankings are there for a reason and I am not bragging.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,959 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Dec 5, 10, 23:49 #20
delphiandomine: from Albanian philology Albanian philology?Is there such a thing?

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Edited by: skysoulmate Dec 6, 10, 00:59 #21

My Polish "education" is limited to przedszkole and few grades in podstawówka so my comparisons would be pointless. I think the Swedish and the American systems are fairly similar. I got an electrical engineering degree from Sweden and in the US a Computer Science BS, followed by masters in Aerospace. (3 degrees and still can't spell worth of crap lol)
I think people study harder in the US because it's not free. In Sweden there were guys and gals in my class who missed 50% of the classes because they didn't care, in the US it meant you'd have to pay twice for the same class. Overall though both systems focused heavily on problem solving rather than memorization.

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Dec 6, 10, 03:42 #22

zetigrek:

There are many threads where people ask is it good idea to study in Poland, so I think such thread may help to make the right choice. I'm also curiouse how does higher education abroad look like, is it really flawless as we in Poland see it? Are all American, British and German unis so good or it also happens that some college or faculties don't come up to the (student's, market's, standard's) expectations?

American universities have open enrollment, so anyone can attend. But you need money: cash, grants or loans. Due to open enrollment no class distinction associated with college education. Socratic method of education (class discussion, questions, etc.) no rote memory. Lots of money available for Universities from research grants, endowments (graduates donate money to school), tuition and state funding.

Regardless of where you attend, education is what you make of it.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Dec 6, 10, 04:03 #23
Chicago Pollock: Regardless of where you attend, education is what you make of it. Very true. A good student in a mediocre university will learn more than a lazy student in great university.

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Dec 6, 10, 11:36 #24
A Polish kid I know went to a Scottish university and couldn't believe how few hours he had to do in class and how lax it seemed. I pointed out that the emphasis was on him to use his 'free time' to study.

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Dec 6, 10, 11:57 #25

Trevek:

A Polish kid I know went to a Scottish university and couldn't believe how few hours he had to do in class and how lax it seemed. I pointed out that the emphasis was on him to use his 'free time' to study.

Yes, that is somewhat of a problem for some Polish students!

Speaking from personal experience, second year students on a licencja course in modern languages are nowhere near the level of second year students on an English BA course in modern languages. I'd say that second year students on a licencja course in modern languages are pretty much at the level of somebody who has just got a reasonable grade (i.e. C or above) at A level. As for a magister in modern language being equal to an English MA in the same, don't make me laugh! The sandwich element (i.e. a year working in a country where the language you are studying is used) makes an English BA at least as good as a Polish magister, in this area at least.

MaybeThreads: 7 Posts: 335 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Dec 6, 10, 12:23 #26
Chicago Pollock: education is what you make of it. That is it, nothing more need be said.

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Edited by: southern Dec 6, 10, 12:28 #27

As a memorizer I heavily dislike the American exam system which tries to shortlist and create obstacles to memorizers.Why should sb who knows less get better grades because he happened to study smaller but more relevant books?Or why do they not give the same grade value to all questions of the exam?The US system is a lot about golden average and not about extreme deviations.
I also don't like how they play with your psychology and physical insurance during the exam.I mean after 5 hours one will be tired.Why does he have still to answer easy questions where he most likely will make a mistake due to fatigue and not due to lack of knowledge?And why they don't let you have second time the exam when you already know the mechanism it is based on?And not reveal the mechanism to other students due to penalties in such a case?In my country the more intelligent you are and the more time you study the better grades you get,they don't play with your psychology,fatigue and deviation from the average or your ways to beat the system.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Edited by: zetigrek Dec 6, 10, 12:32 #28
Harry: The sandwich element (i.e. a year working in a country where the language you are studying is used) makes an English BA at least as good as a Polish magister, in this area at least. Americans usually translates Polish mgr degree as BA. Btw. can find somewhere an exemplary A level test of any subject? I just want to see how tough it is.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 6, 10, 14:30 #29
zetigrek: Btw. can find somewhere an exemplary A level test of any subject? I just want to see how tough it is. It'll probably be very easy for you - but http://www.ocr.org.uk/qualifications/type/index.html is what you want :)

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Edited by: zetigrek Dec 6, 10, 14:38 #30
thx I gonna check it. Btw what's the difference between AS and A2?

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