Are you teaching English in Poland?

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Edited by: jonni Mar 20, 10, 18:00 #91

delphiandomine:

Easily - two trips to the Urząd Miasta, one trip to the Urząd Skarbowy and the job's done.

Or in Warsaw one trip to the Urząd Miasta, a trip to the tax office then to Główny Urząd Statystycne, and trip back to the tax office. If it's a one man band your last tasks will be a visit to ZUS and to get a rubber stamp made while-U-wait.

Don't let Poles befuddle you with stories about it being complicated, remember you need to know what type of accounts you are going to keep (choose the easiest), remember that three tax officials will have four different answers to the same question which they will each swear on their life is right - choose whatever answer suits you best and take a good book with you - there's a lot of waiting in corridors.

If it's a limited company however procedures are a little different. Perhaps even simpler, but you need to register it with the court and sign the articles of incorporation at a notary and with a sworn translator.

DelphianDomine:

t's crucial to get the right accountant. A bad one can completely screw you up

Yes. People have gone bust due to a bad accountant (bookkeeper is more accurate but they always say accountant) - many of them in PL don't understand their role - they see themselves as some sort of intermediary between the business and the state and actually refuse to do the client's bidding.

It is vital to get a good one. When I started up I had a bookkeeper who booked the first two months of 100k plus billing as well as the start-ip capital into the same month and all the salaries and overheads into a subsequent month showing a 250000 zl pre-tax false profit. For only two months and the tax bill due right away. She swore blindly (and loudly) that this was right and is "how we do it in Poland".

The old bi tch nearly busted the company and made 40 people unemployed and the financial analyst I had to get in to sort her mess out it out "isn't Polish so can't understand".

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Edited by: delphiandomine Mar 20, 10, 18:02 #92

Seanus:

Fitting new arrangements into currently existing ones sometimes takes a bit of doing

Oh jeez, yes. I'm having a nightmare at the minute trying to schedule everything - I have to block off 11:30 to 2:30 every day for my foreigners advice agency formal office time (12-2, so allowing travel time) - and I keep being offered more and more at the wrong times.

It's amazing how much work you can generate simply by saying "I can invoice".

Jonni:

Or in Warsaw one trip to the Urząd Miasta, a trip to the tax office then to Główny Urząd Statystycne, and trip back to the tax office. If it's a one man band your last tasks will be a visit to ZUS and to get a rubber stamp made while-U-wait.

It's bizzare how the same procedure differs - GUS is done here automatically by the Urząd Miasta, and the tax office visit is literally just to pick the type of tax scheme that you choose. But you shouldn't have to visit ZUS - everything they want is accessible by accountants and can be done by them. The second visit to the Urzad Miasta is just to pick up documentation - though I do wonder why they can't just post it.

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Edited by: Seanus Mar 20, 10, 18:06 #93

Delph, please outline the procedure as you see it as my experience squares with jonni's. One trip to the Urząd Miasta to create the company name (1PLN payment, LOL). A step you have both missed out is to the Urząd Wojewódskie, Katowice in my case. I vividly remember going and hanging around :( :( GUS is vital too but it's a 90-second walk from my flat so that was easy. The Urząd Skarbowy for the NIP. Oh, and there are many places that do stamps.

Yeah, I steer clear of invoices (nie jestem VATowcą). I only issue bills and I just need to monitor the numbers to get the right order.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Mar 20, 10, 18:10 #94

Seanus:

Delph, please outline the procedure as you see it as my experience squares with jonni's. One trip to the Urząd Miasta to create the company name (1PLN payment, LOL). A step you have both missed out is to the Urząd Wojewódskie, Katowice in my case. I vividly remember going and hanging around :( :( GUS is vital too but it's a 90-second walk from my flat so that was easy. The Urząd Skarbowy for the NIP. Oh, and there are many places that do stamps.

Okay, how I did it.

Trip to the Urzad Miasta to register. No payment needed or required, just passport and copy of EU residence permit. And unbelievably, they copy it themselves!

Trip back to the Urzad Miasta to pick up the company documentation.

(inbetween this, the Urzad Miasta talks to GUS and arranges for the REGON to be sent out : takes about a week or so to come through)

Trip to the tax office to pick the tax scheme. You can do this by post if you want, but it's easier and quicker to visit the place in person. The NIP is automatically upgraded now - no need to fill out the form a second time.

There would have been a need to visit ZUS, but I sorted out an accountant before starting the business, and she dealt with all the ZUS-related paperwork.

No need to visit the Urząd Wojewódskie here.

Seanus:

Yeah, I steer clear of invoices (nie jestem VATowcą). I only issue bills and I just need to monitor the numbers to get the right order.

I sort of do both - I have a full page excel invoice for those that need something official and serious looking, and for others, I just have a little receipts book. What I use depends on what I'm doing - the foreigners advice agency customers and other schools get a proper full page bill, private clients just get a receipt.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 20, 10, 18:14 #95
Aha, cutting one layer of red tape then. ZUS is also taken care of by my accountant. It's important to get the NIP-1 form right. Liability rests with you so it's in your interests to ensure that your accountant is on the right track to the best of your knowledge. A Pesel is not needed but it can be useful to have, if only for extra ID purposes.

delphiandomineThreads: 40 Posts: 9,577 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂	Edited by: delphiandomine Mar 20, 10, 18:16 #96
Seanus: Aha, cutting one layer of red tape then. It's strange, but I'd say that for EU citizens at least, opening a company in Poland is completely painless. The only painful part is paying ZUS each month! A Pesel is not needed but it can be useful to have, if only for extra ID purposes. I'd say that getting one makes life considerably easier in Poland.

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Mar 20, 10, 18:17 #97

delphiandomine:

the Urzad Miasta talks to GUS and arranges for the REGON to be sent out : takes about a week or so to come through)

In Warsaw you get the REGON direct from GUS which takes an hour of waiting, a flurry of photocopying and stamp buying and about 10 mins to actually get it

Perversely, you don't go to the huge shiny GUS office in the city centre, but to one down a mud track in the outer suburbs.

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Mar 29, 10, 20:54 #98

Been reading this thread very carefully as I am now going through the same process with a slightly different twist. The company that recently hired me, advised me to get my own company registered (Dzial. Gosp) so that I could issues them invoices each month and the company paying me could avoid paying VAT. The parent company is based in London. I issued my first invoice last month with 0% VAT specified.

At the moment, I have my NIP, PESEL, REGON and a Permanent Resident card. I am scheduled to make my first payment to ZUS tomorrow. This morning, I went down to Urząd Skarbowy in an attempt to close the loop, and of course they told me I was doing everything all wrong! They wanted me to fill-out another form and pay some money downstairs. I opted for a second opinion!

The company I am working for has quite a few people operating under the same scenario, so I know it can be done. I was told that I need to get some kind of EU VAT number in order to send invoices to other EU companies. Then I can specify that VAT is 0 for selling services abroad within EU when I issue the invoice. I have asked to speak with someone else at the company who has already been thru the process that could give me some advice.

Anyone else in a similar situation?

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Mar 29, 10, 21:11 #99

lateStarter: The company I am working for has quite a few people operating under the same scenario, so I know it can be done. I was told that I need to get some kind of EU VAT number in order to send invoices to other EU companies. Then I can specify that VAT is 0 for selling services abroad within EU when I issue the invoice. I have asked to speak with someone else at the company who has already been thru the process that could give me some advice.

Get an accountant. The whole mechanism for charging VAT within the EU is an absolute mess - I just about understand it, but I can't explain it for the life of me. An accountant will also save you endless headaches - and they're very cheap. My accountant charges 122zl a month brutto - which for the amount of time, hassle and effort she's saved me, it's been worth every penny. She also deals directly with ZUS and the Urzad Skarbowy - I don't have to get involved, apart from transferring money. A good accountant will also keep you right - if I have any questions, no matter how stupid, I go to my accountant and get an answer there and then.

lateStarterThreads: 2 Posts: 32 Joined: Jul 14, 09 ♂	Mar 29, 10, 22:19 #100
delphiandomine: Get an accountant. The whole mechanism for charging VAT within the EU is an absolute mess Sounds like the best advice. My wife, as smart as she is, is already overwhelmed taking care of her mother. Money well spent in my opinion. Now, I just need to find a good accountant...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 29, 10, 22:57 #101
It's definitely worth it, I couldn't do without mine. Grabnik, which part of Poland is that?

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Edited by: delphiandomine Mar 29, 10, 23:15 #102

lateStarter: Sounds like the best advice. My wife, as smart as she is, is already overwhelmed taking care of her mother. Money well spent in my opinion. Now, I just need to find a good accountant...

If you can speak the language (or if your wife can deal with it) - get one in a local area as opposed to in the centre of a city. I phoned quite a few in Poznan, and got quotes as high as 300zl a month for dealing with a few invoices - there is a very clear "English speaking tax" in Poland, and it's not uncommon to hear of horror stories from English speaking professionals. Usually - if they've actually worked in the West, they'll be fine - but steer clear of anyone who has never lived there, yet just speaks the language.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 29, 10, 23:54 #103
I pay 183PLN but the mother of my co-teacher charges only 50PLN or sth like that. I'll ask her but it was low. She is good apparently.

lateStarterThreads: 2 Posts: 32 Joined: Jul 14, 09 ♂	Apr 2, 10, 09:10 #104
Seanus:Grabnik, which part of Poland is that? About 40km west of Warsaw. Village with less than 100 people. Sochaczew is about 12km away. If I walk out my back door, I am in Kampinos National Park.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 2, 10, 09:19 #105
Aha, ok. I think you have to be less fussy about the accountant that you find. You are hardly spoilt for choice there. How's the teaching going anway?

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Apr 2, 10, 19:51 #106

Seanus:How's the teaching going anway?

I only have a handful left at the moment. I stopped taking new students in order to make one last attempt to land a technical job (training/coding/whatever) - and I got lucky. I'm working from the house which is both good and bad. It would be very good if the MIL wasn't living with us (she had a stroke and requires full time care) as I need to schedule my work hours around her schedule.

Situation should improve next month when she goes on vacation to our other property outside of Płonsk. I can't wait!

GodandBrownThreads: 4 Posts: 68 Joined: Jul 7, 08 ♂	May 21, 10, 22:18 #107
Is it true that one can get problems with invoices in Poland? When working as a freelancer what should people give attention to? What if you have more than two schools paying you and some companies on your own?

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May 22, 10, 01:16 #108

GodandBrown:

Is it true that one can get problems with invoices in Poland?

The only problems are the same problems that any business faces - late paying clients.

GodandBrown:

When working as a freelancer what should people give attention to?

Their accountant. And making sure to always pay ZUS and the US on time regardless of any other bills.

GodandBrown:

What if you have more than two schools paying you and some companies on your own?

Why do you think it makes a difference?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 22, 10, 02:01 #109
Yeah, you have to set dates as deadlines. True, don't be late and be accurate to the grosz. It doesn't make a difference. I work for 3 schools plus other side projects and I give it all to my accountant.

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May 22, 10, 12:12 #110

delphiandomine wrote:

no point taking a job where you have to teach Business English if you don't religiously read about the subject.

pure bollocks. what an obscene exaggeration.

first and foremost, how many Polish people does this forum know who teach English full time that have even a few years business experience under the age of say 32? Polish teachers graduate with their Master's in English degrees and go right to a language school and start working or translating or whatever they do to make ends meet, including teaching Business English. they don't go work for some corporation for 5 years, get real business experience, and then start working as an English teacher. neither do they sit at home and read business news "religiously" every day. why? because you're an English teacher, not a business consultant. a qualified english teacher knows the language through and through, the vocabulary within the lesson, and how to teach it accurately and effectively. period. chances are, if they were to ask you how long you've been studying business, they'll ask it using the wrong verb tense.....a much bigger fish to fry regarding their English skills.

aside from that, if the student insisted on a teacher who was knowlegable in business, you sure as hell aren't qualified to give advice on the subject because you read The Economist and the daily headlines. Go to work for a corporation for a few years, see what life is really like in the bullpen, and then we'll talk.

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Edited by: delphiandomine May 22, 10, 15:01 #111

FUZZYWICKETS:

pure bollocks. what an obscene exaggeration.

Really? So you think that a teacher who has absolutely no knowledge of the subject can teach it to any sort of adequate level to people who know the stuff in Polish? Don't think so, sunshine.

Then again, I suppose it's a bit like a biologist teaching Business English - fraudulent at best, laughably pathetic at worst.

FUZZYWICKETS:

first and foremost, how many Polish people does this forum know who teach English full time that have even a few years business experience under the age of say 32? Polish teachers graduate with their Master's in English degrees and go right to a language school and start working or translating or whatever they do to make ends meet, including teaching Business English.

And this is why most Polish "Business English" teachers are incredibly poor. They don't know very much about the topic, many of them simply aren't interested (especially as it's highly unlikely that they've studied the topic in any detail) and quite frankly - the vast majority of them can't teach it properly, except from a textbook.

FUZZYWICKETS:

neither do they sit at home and read business news "religiously" every day. why? because you're an English teacher, not a business consultant. a qualified english teacher knows the language through and through, the vocabulary within the lesson, and how to teach it accurately and effectively. period.

And this is why most of them aren't teaching the subject, because all they know is what's contained within the textbook. It's exactly the same reason why people consistently show dissatisfaction with Polish "Business English" teachers (or even native teachers) - teachers who know the technical aspects but have no understanding or grasp of the issues surrounding the topics are generally rubbish.

FUZZYWICKETS:

aside from that, if the student insisted on a teacher who was knowlegable in business, you sure as hell aren't qualified to give advice on the subject because you read The Economist and the daily headlines. Go to work for a corporation for a few years, see what life is really like in the bullpen, and then we'll talk.

Was the wrong spelling of "knowledgeable" intentional? :)

I've said it once and I'll say it again - anyone who attempts to teach some sort of ESP without keeping themselves updated and informed about the topic is doomed to failure. I can't imagine anything worse than (for instance) - a Business English teacher who doesn't even bother to learn about what's going on in the world. How can you ever hope to discuss, for example, corporate governance if you can't discuss Enron or the like in great detail?

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	May 22, 10, 16:14 #112
delphiandomine: discuss Enron or the like in great detail? You mean like how Kenneth Lay died before his sentencing and went to the Bush compound Paraguay? :) (BTW, his case was abated - meaning he was never indicted, tried, or convicted in the eyes of the Law)

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	May 22, 10, 16:22 #113
richasis: (BTW, his case was abated - meaning he was never indicted, tried, or convicted in the eyes of the Law) That's for the criminal bit, his estate can still be (and is being) sued for civil damages.

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May 22, 10, 18:19 #114

What is business English? Yeah, there's some specific vocabulary to teach, true, but otherwise it's just English. I've read tons of boring books on the subject by authors who've never worked for a business. Almost all were useless. 300 pages to tell me to teach what they need. Duh. I do that on day one. I ask them.

Yes, I teach business English. And I spent 25 years in the US in sales and sales management. That's all good, but what it really comes down to is how good a teacher you are. Plain and simple, nuts and bolts, soup to nuts, whatever. Be a pro. Care about your students. Give them what they need. It's that simple.

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May 22, 10, 18:45 #115

delphiandomine wrote:

Then again, I suppose it's a bit like a biologist teaching Business English - fraudulent at best, laughably pathetic at worst.

yeah? I have a degree in Biology and spent 3 years working full time for a corporation of 1000+ employees in America before coming to Poland. Imagine that. Care to tell us your experience working for a large company?

you're a 25 year old kid who graduated from college and came to Poland to live.....rent free. don't forget that, Mikey.

Yes, I teach business English. And I spent 25 years in the US in sales and sales management. That's all good, but what it really comes down to is how good a teacher you are. Plain and simple, nuts and bolts, soup to nuts, whatever. Be a pro. Care about your students. Give them what they need. It's that simple.

what he said.

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	May 22, 10, 18:54 #116
convex: That's for the criminal bit, his estate can still be (and is being) sued for civil damages. Duly noted. :)

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May 23, 10, 10:37 #117

Here are some good reasons to open a new school in Poland, aren't they? I agree with Seanus, personality is more important than any textbooks. To be inside is not that bad, I would always prefer economically experienced teacher to academically well-educated but theoretically overloaded teacher who start to whine without textbooks.
When I was in Poland in 2002, I was shocked by the low claim clients did have. The equipment of the language school was so bad, the work environment as well, but nobody complaint about it. All customers sat quietly in the last rows, shyly enough to cough in winter times. I tried to set up interactive role plays, but they felt really uncomfortable. My employer manipulated each month my pay slip on his own, but I gave him the tax office after the last term. Wolna Amerikanska - not with me. There were many natives who overbridged their two years'time tax free in Poland hoping to get any attractive Polish student for a short adventure what never happened. They did a really bad job. When I talked about business topics, I started monologues. I needed three months to break the ice. Hard-work, but you get it if you give them stuff enough to trust you,

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May 23, 10, 11:57 #118

There is one thing that I'll say, GodandBrown. That is that some boring teachers can get off with lacking personality if they can guide the students through the material in a fluid way. It all depends on the method. Some methods require more punch and zip.

I sometimes feel that a more humdrum attitude is called for when I teach. Some Polish students can be very serious and they don't seem to react well to an open environment laced with humour and energy.

It just depends. I adapt when I can but I am who I am.

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