Worst Polish leader Lech Kaczynski or King Stanislaw Poniatowski?

re: You should definitely consider a career in politics.

- Thanks but its not for me. ;)

Now, the EU is a mess. How is it possible that the job market in Germany and in other EU countries is closed for some EU nations, and at the same time there is a constant stream of folks from the Thirld World - all those Asiatics, Arabs, anfd the like - entering the EU countries and allowed to settle and work there?

First and the most important thing that needs to be done to reform the EU is locking the gates for the thirldworlders, limiting the EU aid for them, and taking care of EU citizens before any others.

If this is not done, the EU is going to collapse - soon.

And so is Europe.

Now there are clearly powerful political forces in the EU that back the Thirld World immigration lock stock and barrel. Would those who would like to reform the EU and make Europe great win with these forces?

Come on my civilazed brother, don't stop only on locking gates, you should restore segregation. Well how it is typically for europeans, they always talk profusely about racial tolerance but really still hate all people with another color of skin....

Once, after Pogroms Alexander III said "I hate all Jews and I feel happy after each pogrom, but this pogroms should be stopped by government"
This false position is a good example of nowday EU policy.

I would strongly disagree with that statement

What are the ways to cope with such imigration.
I'm sure for that some steps are necessary:
1) Development of low cost house, car and electronics-internet manufacturing. I.e. module sandwich-panel cottages for some Usd 15000-20000 (like Levittown in the USA in 1940-50), cars for USD1500-2500, Usd 50-100 laptops and 100megabytes per second unlimited internet for some USD 10 mounthly. Such low cost requires a great research of billions dollars but it will later revive economies of poor countries and low cost satisfactory living standarts can keep people in poor countries away from imigration. On the other hand such low cost and module technologies as used within the proper EU will require less labour and less imigrants can arrive.
2) EU agriculture should be less donated. The EU farmers can't use donations without the use of ilegals. And many ilegals leave for the EU because their farms in Africa and Asia can't be in competition with donated EU agriculture despite better climatic and ground conditions and less crop cost. EU politicians seem to be frightened by domestic farmers capable to paralyze all the ways by their tractors. In my opinion EU society should get ready to survive in such protests and to overcome. It should be stated that there are no reasons for fear that poor countries can be united later in food blackmail of EU because there are many producers in competition.
3) EU should establish a strong irregular police service controlling each street, each town. No one can live in EU without being noticed by society. That will permit the strict controle not only over ilegals but also over drug traffic and other challenges such as for example violence in families and infantil crime. People who have more high social position (some 20 % of population) should be involved in such controle. The facts when any of them don't want to notice smth. evident in place of his work or residence should damage his reputation. In the epoch of Internet it is quite easy to stigmatyze his reputation.
At the same time young people if they are out of regular army should spend a year in street commands looking after order in place of their residence, cleaning streets and visiting physically handicapped neigbours. That will permit a good order and complete controle, the impossibility of ilegals' penetration and of course will contribute to the growth of responsability among young people. All the population will feel more security in general.

These are the ways. What is examined in EU? Other good ways? You know them? You are sure they are more efficient?

By the way, Puzzler,

Will you determine more exactly what do you mean by thirldworlders?
If we are discussing practical steps not abstract dreams, such term should de described.
First of all because not the EU on the whole but Poland is going to open way to EU to people outside Eurozone. Poland created not so long ago conditions for construction workers from Ukraine, Belarus and Russia to work without special labour bodies permission.
Today Poland is planing to attract young Ukranians, Belorussians and Russians to Poland. As it is informed, young imigrants will receive a permition for a year and if they manage to find a job, it will be possible to live and work more untill naturalization in some 6 years.
You spoke about the chinese wall against people from Third world but the reality is that precisely Poland is the country ready to the most serious violation of this principle.
One may oppose that we are discussing only Slav imigrants who are similar to EU population. But:
1) Such argument contradicts political correctness. Turkish people may be ofended. You may discuss imigration reduction but without any attention to race or ethnicity.
2) Slavs may be similar to Poles. As to Germans, I'm not sure it is so.
3) Not only Slavs live in East Europe. Millions of people in Caucasus. I'm not sure EU people can feel any difference between them and Arabs or Turkish people. Chechens are already colonizing Poland and have posibilities to live legally and right to naturalization in some years. Only USD 500 average salary in Russia stop many of them from leaving for Poland. As to Poles, they seem to be ready to receive them.
So you are for cease of imigration, but Poland may become the greatest acceptor of imigrants now in the EU.
What is your opinion on that?

Two Polish political parties PIS the party of Lech Kaczynski and PO are financially supported and trained by American republicans. This is why Kaczynski has to do their bidding. Poland needs an independent leader like Pilsudski who is not a slave to Americans(Kaczynski) or Russians(Poniatowski). Kaczynski's support for this missile base when most Polish people don't want it or the Iraq war shows his puppetry. Kaczynski calls himself a devout Catholic but Pope John Paul II was against the Iraq war. That's because the Pope wasn't a puppet of America like Kaczynski.
Anyone who is a true Slav knows Poles and Russians have too much in common to not get along. It's only the bad politicians like Kaczynski that separate us.
Also, do I have to show you the water boards that were used on terrorists on Polish soil
in order for you to believe. Why would independent observers make up these stories?

Those "independent observers" are usually euro lefties like Amnesty International who do not like Poland.

Maxxx Payne,

Why no observers as well as many pro Human Rights and pro democratic endowments seem to pay even a minimum attention to low cost prospects and problems?
Why don't they realize that satisfactory living standarts for half of the world at low price can do more for democracy and peace than Human Rights watch or use of military force?
Renault Nissan is making a USD 3000 car, Nicolas Negroponte a USD 100 laptop. I didn't hear about any desire of pro West organizations to support these efforts despite the fact many problems still exist in the area of introducing such low cost.
Nice experience of Levittown is till today important for many countries (cottage for USD 6000 in 1949 when average salary was USD 300). Levitt told in 1947 that a man who has a cottage will never become a communist.
Although Levitt's idea was proved by 100% and now we can forsee any extremism failure in countries low cost cottages, vehicles ans electronics are available, nobody realizes the necessity to repeat Levittown, Ford T, Citroen 2CV and Mini by Issigonis successes (a car for 4 mounths average salary when this salary was on the same level it is in poor countries now).
There are different types of "democratic oppositions" supported by USA and EU in non-democratic and semidemocratic states, but the have nothing to promise the society (neither available cottages ad those of Levitt, nor cheap vehicles) - only "more liberty".
Nobody seems to pay attention to low cost although there are many people in the West who also want to have more primitive car but some 7 times less expensive and a cheap module sandwich-panel cottage they won't pay for the rest of their lives. Although many people in EU are readi to buy a more primitive laptop for their children if its price is only USD 100 but everithing for the work exists.
What is the reason?

First, I have to say that I totally understand your resentment that under the influence of a perverted sense of political correctness, the 'western sphere' of the EU constantly appear to show much more sympathy with the suffering of the rest of the world (i.e Third World) than with the suffering of their very nearby, eastern brothers. This is a kind of utterly 'twisted' anti-racism that favours poor 'black', poor 'yellow' over poor 'white' (while secretly believes rich 'white' superior to rich 'the rest'). I believe deep in its subconsciousness the sentiment belongs to 'the Western Civilisation scheme' that tries to grab all the honour of European achievements (in all human aspects) to a certain European big players, so that the elites of those countries will preserve their power in the newly unified Europe (and of course now their new power will be much magnified). This line of thought will obviously necessitate the marginalisation of the achievements of the people of East Central Europe (the rhetoric: you guys have not contributed anything worthwhile, so just shut up and do what you are told). As not everyone inside or outside Europe have much interest and leisure time to know something true about history or art, this marginalisation process has a primary targets at Hungary, Czech Rep, Romania and particularly Poland, whose historic (I deem not really important anymore) and humanistic (most important) pretensions are very troublesome to the intellectual 'bandits' of some Western European countries. That said, I myself as a true Third Worlder myself have of course nothing against 'blacks' or 'yellows', whom I feel a deep affinity. I just resent whenever and wherever I feel injustice happening.

Puzzler, your suggestion of totally blocking 'Third Worlders' coming to Europe is totally impossible, particularly to European leaders. I don't try to be moralistic (I detest preachers myself) but I feel that humanistic education in Europe has gone far to the point that non of those leaders would dare to pass a total block without instant protest from the majority of the population. Could you visualise the effect of such block on Europe and the world as a whole? Europe will be a prison in itself, literally, figuratively, intellectually, artistically, economically ...etc. All humane education on equality, justice, empathy... would be lost. Europeans will get first envy, then hatred from the rest of the world and they will naturally respond in kind. And the non-native Europeans (which are now completely massive in number), fostered by hatred by all sides will become European most terrible terrorists. Ergo, a grotesque dictatorship has to be established, war flares up all over the world and boom, end of history.

What Truhlei suggests is much more reasonable, boosting the economy of the Third World through aids (I think your demand that Poland and other Eastern Europeans should get more aids than the TW is very 'ungallant' and 'unPolished', even blatantly selfish). However, there are two interesting points.
-The first is that the aids has been massively inefficient. This is due to a horrible amount of social, cultural, economic, psychological factors that can not simply be solved in a short time (Russians and Poles know this too well). The only solution to it is that the talented and the willing must stay to help their homeland instead of going for good to the Western metropolis in search for the saving of their own soul (trust me, they will NEVER find it there!) But under the enslaving influence of materialistic comsumerism of our time, to keep the talented and the willing from corruption is even harder than to keep them from going abroad. I admire and salute the few who are still resisting both of these massive temptations.
-My second point is in certain countries, the situation has become so extreme that keeping the common people at home is a most inhumane prolonged death execution. To these unfortunate people, Europe must show compassion and let them join in. A few of them, with an rather 'idealistic', 'dreamy', 'nostalgic' constitution... will never integrate and are always alienated. But the majority are practical and they will be happy with their lot. Thus exercising compassion here is a noble cause and it shows Europeans to be true with their humanistic tradition (affluence here is used justly).

I believe, Poland with its unique history of living in Three Worlds, should have known more common sense and compassion than what itself has showed.

Ps 1. I have read the article at Msn and found it very one-sided. The author tries to be nearly neutral when he mentions the Baltic-gasline but then blatantly exposes his total Polo-phobia by this statement: “Many of those who might vote against Law and Justice—and the new generation of politicians who might stand against it—have already left the country. As for those who've stayed behind, they seem unable and unlikely to redeem Poland's name in Europe.” So that two millions ‘noble’ souls have gone, leaving 36 millions imbeciles back in a hopelessly imbecile country? Disgusting!!!

Ps 2. I do think that Augustus the Strong is the worst, but then you have to reap what you sow!

The "War" in Iraq is getting better by the week. Troops are beginning to move to the border and are slowly letting the Iraqi Police Forces move in. You being so goddam pessimistic makes it a failure. And so what if terrorists were interrogated? They're terrorists!! You polish people live in this World, too, right? Or am I wrong? Do you not think that any terrorist organization would take over Poland in a heartbeat if it had a chance? Poland is not immune to the disease that is radical islam, nor is any other country on the face of the Earth. Many, many Americans want other countries to help in the War on Terror, and it's sad when they don't, but if you're going to procrastinate, then don't hinder our ability to protect ourselves.

And don't say we're "bogged down in Iraq", we've only used a fraction of our military might. We've hardly used our Air Force and Navy, and we haven't used the draft. Besides, if we were attacked by Iran or any other hostile nation, their country would be a smoldering crater within 24 hours, probably less.

are you retarded? are you stating that Poland's history is not important?



Poland in 3 worlds?

please stop smoking the crack

I meant that historic pretensions of a great Poland, stretching from sea to sea is not as relevant in today's world as Polish humanistic achievements.



I meant that Poland has an unique history of having been through the First World, the Second World and the Third World experience, so a good dose of Polish empathy for other unfortunate countries should be more manifest.

I hope it is clear!

Poland never was friom sea to sea. You are talking about Great Lithuania in 16 century.
As for today this is not the ideal for Poles.
As far as I know...

In 1569 due to the Union of Lublin lands formerly under control of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania such as Podlachia, Volhynia, Podolia and the Kiev regions were incorporated into the Crown of Poland.


Thus Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth reached from the Baltic to the Black sea in the 16- 17th Century

Black sea beach was strongly controlled by RP in that period? Or that was only a formal border?

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for a while controlled parts of Moldavia and other regions of the Black Sea as this was the Commonwealth-Ottoman border and many bloody wars were fought between the Poles and Turks in this region.

I totally agree. Kaczynski is trying to abolish this corrupted III RP but post-communist are too strong... unfortunatelly...

The Iraqi police forces are a joke. You've been listening too much to George Bush's propaganda. Do you really want Poland to be known in the Arab world as a place where Arabs are tortured?