WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland

I will tell you what would have happened.Soviet forces would conquer the whole of Japan,would keep Austria,would invade Italy,Finland and would take over the whole german coast with Hamburg etc.
Americans had only 3 atomic bombs ready in 1945 and Soviets knew that.They dropped two in Japan.They had no atomic bomb in 1944.Soviet spies knew everything about US nuclear programm.
The americans were very considerate and they estimated losses.Had they supported the claims of the exiled polish goevernment hundreds of thousands of Americans would have to die in the war against Nazis cause the Soviets would halt their operations which were conducted in many cases in order to relieve the pressure from western allies.

Exactly this attack waited one million soviet soldiers with 5000 tanks stationed in Eastern Germany.The perfect reason to invade the West.

The only card they could have played was Hitler himself but they had broken up connections to him irreversibly.

Im not sure if this was previously posted, but here's some info on PL co-operation with GB during the war

Pity that site keeps on repeating the same old tired lies:
"Polish soldiers were not invited to participate in the victory parades in London and Moscow in 1945."

Of course it would have been pretty difficult for Poles to participate in the London victory parade in 1945, given that there wasn't one.

Polish servicemen most certainly did participate in the Moscow parade. Here's photograph of them being led by Gen. Karol Świerczewski: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Polish_Mil_Victory_Parade_1945.jpg

Polish servicemen most certainly were invited to participate in the London parade. The ones which represented the government of Poland didn't bother to turn up and the Free Polish forces refused to participate.

I wonder why they wouldn't?





This may have been Moscow Poles, May 1945 as Poland was occupied by Soviets


http://www.ww2.pl/apps/?command=fotografie/pokaz

Carol

Britain may see their actions differant, please watch from Polish perspective.

Carol

They felt insulted because not enough of them had been invited.

Celinski try to find out why Hitler kept such enormous troops in Warsaw while his western front collapsed in Normandy.

I would like to know also why the troops in Warsaw were bigger than any others in the German army......

[quote=celinski] I wonder why they wouldn't?

Opps, This is the clip on the parade that was about why we were not "invited to the parade".




Carol, USA

Yeah, it's a thing that puts shame on Poland. But if 'Heroic Soviet Army' stationed in your country, you'd HAVE TO BE happy to do anything what Moscow would say.

What is the date, I thought Poland was communist then, No? Before you blast me Harry, I am not sure of the date so I admit I just may be wrong. Carol

1968. Dark times, and definitely under the heel of USSR.

Er,OK,lets look at this way,hypotheticaly;GB and France leave Poland to Hitler,both countries say,"stuff it,why waste our boys lives for those guys the other side of europe who ,actually,have never done anything for us in the past(blah blah,stopping communism in 1921......) and are in no position to do anything for us now". "We" let hitler invade without declaring war,no change,the panzers still roll east and the Tanki still roll west a fortnight later. Ok so far? Right,then,instead of having an enemy in the west to take care of(remember,"we" have stayed out of the war) hitler only has his main event to plan and build up for,the conquest of the Soviet Union. No one to fight in the west,Hitlers plans are not delayed and he is able to invade "Russia" on his schedule.(remember,all this time the remnents of the Polish Govt'and armed forces are still interned in Romania,as britain and france are not allies,and,oh gosh yes,Romania is allied to the nazis by now). the nazis also have more time and energy to shape the former Poland into their vison of the greater german reich and eliminate more potential enemies. The war in the east well that could have still gone either way,probably with an eventual german victory over the Red Army,but at the very least a stalemate as ,without Britain still(or ever having being) in the war the USA has no reason to interfere in a European war. Where would all this have left Poland,either crushed under Germany or to this day still a vassal state of the USSR.
As to why Britain formed an alliance with Poland,with hindsight,lord knows,all WW2 did for Britain was bancrupt it and cause the speedier loss of world influence it had enjoyed,for good or ill ,for the last 3 centuries. As to why the alliance,it was formalised only weeks before the panzars rolled,Polands high command had made all sorts of overly optomistic statements about being able to hold out against the nazis so Britain had no reason to belive on sept' the 3rd that Poland would collapse so rapidly,especially as the French were sworn to launch a land based offensive within 2 weeks.


If this is sarcasm my above answer covers it neatly I think. If not,sorry bout that :)

Well,again,where to start,how about giving the Poles the means to fight the Germans,freely,and without political interference as those in the east faced.
How about a home for your govt in exile which maintained autonamy and even its own SOE section( the only allied nation entrusted with a completely indipendant hand in this), all the RAF flights in support of your underground govt and army in Poland itself,yes,even the 200+ british and commenwealth flyers who lost their lives trying to resupply Warsaw. Never mind the home given to all those who had to stay out of Poland after the war.Sorry,but without Britain involved Polands soldiers would have rotted in romanian internment till the nazis got their hands on them.


This should never be underplayed,but,I doubt france would have been attacked had she also stayed out of the way,hitlers eyes were always east.


not stricktly true, they may have worn British style uniform,and been equipped and armed by the British but,and this is a big but,they were in the Polish not British army.

He didnt,at the time of the august uprising troop levels in the city were down to a token force,mostly made up of second line police reservists etc. The reason the rising ran into trouble was that the germans had no problems reinforcing their troops as the eastern front proper was only a matter of miles away.
Anyway,what has the Warsaw uprising got to do with britain in 1939?
Incidently,where do you think all the build up support for the rising came from,yep,thats right,Britain, Polands underground army sent its finest to train in britain,they then returned to Poland and formed the cadre's to train the wider home army. If this was on topic in the thread I could have posted plenty of links re britains material contributions to the rising,but its not,so I wont. They are however widely available on the net.


Indead,and being as the option was, "help us invade them or we invade you" I cant say that its right or proper to bring this up,especially in this thread. (of course,he may have meant when pre war Poland did a little border re aranging at the same time gitler marched on Prague??...)

Not really. You are forgetting that If one thing had been changed in the past then the future would have been much different. In late 30's Polish government was in fact showing the middle finger to Adolf. They wouldn't have done that If had known that they have no allies.

So what,do you really think hitler cared whether your govt' liked him or not,he was still intent on wiping you off the map on his way to moscow.

yeah,crack on with the hogwash G'. so ,these Non existent allies who let all your soldiers reform on their lands......god, you really dont get it do you? If you'd had "no allies",as falkster says,you'd be speaking german now,if your bloodline hadnt been wiped out 30 odd years ago....
This really is like debating with a bunch of high school kids who have maybe seen a few war films......or shooting fish in a barrel.atleast the fish know when theyre shot....

LOL ! And you expect serious discussion ??

this ocasionally happens...I live in hope,but reserve my "serious" discusion for slightly more educated environs.Ones where people forget which country they happened to be spat out into and discuss history not as some form of my countries better than/more hard done by, than yours.....

But that's exactly what you do. Besides you play a smart ass but you don't really understand many things. It's not that nazis in case of Poles had some completely illogical determination to exterminate the nation no matter what (like in case of Jews). They simply saw Poles as a force, which was standing on their way and that was the reason. And without "alliance" with France and UK It could be possible that Poles wouldn't have stood on their way as Polish governmant obviously knew that Poland had no chance fighting Germans alone.

Is the only discussion you know insulting others. Please think before you type. For the size of Poland and what they were facing they did some amazing things. I guess some of the bullies better learn from history, yes they were out numbered otherwise Germans may have to learn Polish. Numbers spread throughout the world are watching and Poland shall never be a slave to communism. God Bless Poland. Carol

Yes they did,1975 was the date set as when there would be no more Poles alive,dont kid yourself G, you know hitler wanted the complete destruction of Poland,good god man,he bangs on about that in Mein Kampf almost as much as he twitters on about jews and venerial disease.


Do you really think they would have given up Danzig and the corridor? Dont be soft man, The nazis always wanted westeren Poland for them selves.What do you think they were going to do,bypass Poland on the way to "Russia" and leave you guys alone,the land of dzerzhinski et al? Or maybe you would have come to an arrangemnet and handed over 3 million of your people to the nazis....nope, I stand by all I say and leave your comments for wider judgement.


what are you twittering on about now, everyone knows that lots of poles did some pretty impressive things in ww2 but what on earth has this got to do with british /Polish relations in the 39 period? remember were not talking about grandpa's shed here.....

crumbs,a bit late with that arnt you,the huge numbers of Polish americans did diddly squat for Poland inww2,why should anything change now or in the future,you all talk the talk but stay safttly tucked up the other side of the atlantic and let your european cousins rip each other apart.And BTW ,Carol, It was Polish communists who ran Poland ,not your blessed ukrainianes or russkies,but Poles.Not that this has much to do with the thread,but ass I said to you somewhere else you do seem to have some almost evangelical agenda that sees you popping up all over the forum with comments about kressy and such like......

Go drink tea, lick qeen's ass and go learn when General Plan-Ost was created.

It is because of WW2 I am here. If not for WW2 what do you think the population in Poland would be today. Just think I could be there to help protect Poland. Carol

thank you, Poland won the war but lost their independence (sort of) Finland lost the war but maintained their independce (partially at least). Following the right path as Poland did is not the easy way.

I have never received any bad-mouthing of Finlands participation in WW II from either British or Polish so I guess they understand our situation at the time.

- Very true, brother.



- No hard feelings or bad-mouthng on our part at all. In fact, in Poland we admired you for giving a good thrashing to Stalin's Russian army. You beat the crap out of them. A brave nation you are, real warriors.
:)

- Come on, Greg, there's no reason to be so offensive. Especially because isthatu is a really good guy - cool, knowledgeable, and not Polonophobic at all. You've shot some Britophobic crap at him; should he now reply in kind with some Polonophobic crap? He'd have the right to do that. Let's be friendly and respectful or less so towards the right people. It's definitely right to be friendly and respectful towards isthatu.
Cheers, Greg and isthatu.
:)

PS. Greg, isthatu. - God bless Her Majesty for Her kindness towards the Polish people.

And God bless English tea - the best tea on earth.
:)

Look how easily they bypassed Sweden on their way from Norway to Finland.



As a workforce to be more specific.



Red army defeat would mean the death of England.Hitler would move his entire force to occupy the island if the British did not accept his terms.For sure GB would compromise.Without Soviet Union the war was lost for the West.