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Do you think that Polish catholics resent the new German Pope?


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matthias
Edited by: matthias  Mar 14, 08, 13:17  #91

lesser wrote:
As far as separation is concentrated, this is your opinion not based on evidence.


lol, be serious here.

lesser wrote:
We discuss primarily about RCC, I don't know and care less what Muslims or Hindu people think about it.


were talking about creationsim and the truth is it is taught to disprove evolution..

lesser wrote:
What was before Big Bang? What caused Big Bang? How could Big Bang create a life from nothing? Perhaps a God caused Big Bang? :) Fundamental questions without answer...


Before the big bang, there was a contrantraction of energy in one spot, the energy mass was fairly unstable until it one day exploded. Life evolved from atoms in the atmosphere such as hydrogen, carbon, and others that bonded to create molecules. Those molecules evolved into single celled organisms and than into more complex organisms. After billions of years humans were the end result.. this is not to say god wasn't involved because I think he was but he did not create humans as we are now....
I am not a scientist so this is my best explanation and all of this IS based on evidance.... Scientist didn't pull this out of thin air u know.... lol

lesser wrote:
You raise religious aspect of sin, while from religious perspective one sin doesn't justify another. Beside of that from legal point of view one person cannot be punished for wrongdoings of other. While you would allow the child to be killed a criminal will continue his miserable life with human right activists monitoring whether he wont be punished too severely and taxpayers forced by politicians founding him luxury conditions in hotel (sorry prison!).


One sin doesn't justify another... maybe so but the sin of abortion rests with the rapist and not the raped... No mother should be put in the position to have a baby of a rapist....

lesser wrote:
I'm deadly serious, politicians cheat you, promise heaven and proclaim to be success everything what they did. In the first country they say that they want copy perfect model of second country and in this second country they say that they want to copy perfect model of this first country. While when you talk with people from other countries they say that their model sucks as well. Politicians want just to create more jobs in public sphere for their palls in bureaucratic apparatus. How many years people can buy these empty promises? The highest time to destroy this bubble.


Yes policitans are cheats, but not all..... You must understand politics to see how the game is played. You might be the best person every and people won't vote for you.... I blame the people for their ignorance as much as the politicans. Anyway I know many good politicans such as JFK who was not against abortion and he was a great politicain before he was killed.... Don't generalize...

lesser wrote:
Money don't solve any problems, Africans must take care of their problems themselves and Europeans and Americans should rather concentrate to not spoil their effort. Spanish empire collapsed when they gained control over American gold.


my friend come back to planet earth.... we must help Africa.... You preach your a man of god and yet you will let these people suffer. aid money would help develop Africa's economy.

 
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lesser
  Mar 14, 08, 14:05  #92

matthias wrote:
were talking about creationsim and the truth is it is taught to disprove evolution..


I'm talking about RCC, I cannot discuss about other versions cause I have not such knowledge.

matthias wrote:
I am not a scientist so this is my best explanation and all of this iIS based on evidance.... Scientist didn't pull this out of thin air u know.... lol


Author of this theory claims that he don't know what was before... Different people have different explanations and nobody is able to proof his rights. They back their theories by traces not evidences.

matthias wrote:
One sin doesn't justify another... maybe so but the sin of abortion rests with the rapist and not the raped... No mother should be put in the position to have a baby of a rapist....


Not maybe but for sure. While rapist should be punished, this fact cannot have any impact on child. You need to face some basic realities of legal system in western civilization, I invented nothing new here.

matthias wrote:
You must understand politics to see how the game is played.


How many times you voted in elections?


matthias wrote:
my friend come back to planet earth.... we must help Africa.... You preach your a man of god and yet you will let these people suffer. and yes aid money would help develop their economy.


I happened to know something about economy as well. African governments should receive no money at all from Europe or America. This is not helpful at all, even opposite. We should trade with them, abolish many trade barriers. One could of course send private cash to some useful organizations working over there.

 
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matthias
  Mar 14, 08, 14:16  #93

lesser wrote:
I'm talking about RCC, I cannot discuss about other versions cause I have not such knowledge


Understandable........

lesser wrote:
Author of this theory claims that he don't know what was before... Different people have different explanations and nobody is able to proof his rights. They back their theories by traces not evidences.


true, no one knows anything for sure yet based on our technoligcal advancement but all the evidence points in that direction....definition of theory is educated guess.... and this is a educated guess

lesser wrote:
Not maybe but for sure. While rapist should be punished, this fact cannot have any impact on child. You need to face some basic realities of legal system in western civilization, I invented nothing new here.


if you want to bring the law into this than fine.... Law says abortion is legal.......

lesser wrote:
How many times you voted in elections?


Im only 24 so I had the chance to vote only once in the presidential elections, once in local and state elections... Either way I know how the game is played....

lesser wrote:
I happened to know something about economy as well. African governments should receive no money at all from Europe or America. This is not helpful at all, even opposite. We should trade with them, abolish many trade barriers. One could of course send private cash to some useful organizations working over there.


K, your still sending money to Africa be it a private organization or not... Don't twist the conversation. I support sending money to Africa and it seems you agree...

 
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z_darius
Edited by: z_darius  Mar 14, 08, 14:29  #94

lesser wrote:
What was before Big Bang? What caused Big Bang? How could Big Bang create a life from nothing? Perhaps a God caused Big Bang? :) Fundamental questions without answer...


Today's science is not looking for this answer because it cannot provide it for a simple reason - science deals with the physical universe (anything that occurs in time and space). According to Big Bang theory neither time nor space existed before Big Bang minus Planck Time (Stephen Hawking ). Therefore, from the point of view of science nothing existed. Science does not research "nothing".

I'll leave it here and see what you do with this.

 
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matthias
  Mar 14, 08, 14:39  #95

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

A little evidance for those who disagree.

 
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tornado2007
  Mar 14, 08, 14:43  #96

Yeah at least the big bang has supporting evidence, religion has nothing

 
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matthias
Edited by: matthias  Mar 14, 08, 14:53  #97

tornado2007 wrote:
Yeah at least the big bang has supporting evidence, religion has nothing


Listen I support big bang theory but don't knock relgion because it made Europe into what it is today.......

Religon is just as complex as science..... You must have the rationale and the intellect to grasp it.... Not talking about blind devotion but really understanding what it means...

 
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tornado2007
  Mar 14, 08, 14:55  #98

matthias wrote:
but don't knock relgion because it made Europe into what it is today.......

yeah look at it, not just europe but the world, its so great and its all thanks to a few story books that there is so much war everywhere :) thats just one example. RELIGION is the scurge of the world

 
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matthias
  Mar 14, 08, 14:58  #99

tornado2007 wrote:
yeah look at it, not just europe but the world, its so great and its all thanks to a few story books that there is so much war everywhere :) thats just one example. RELIGION is the scurge of the world


You blame Religon, I blame the ignorance of people who don't really understand it... They abuse it for their own gain..... In case you didn't know Religion doesn't teach to kill people....

 
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tornado2007
  Mar 14, 08, 15:02  #100

matthias wrote:

You blame Religon, I blame the ignorance of people who don't really understand it... They abuse it for their own gain..... In case you didn't know Religion doesn't teach to kill people....

ow of course religion is all innocent :) don't make me laugh. WHen you finish banging whatever book you choose too and wake up maybe one day you will lead your own life instead of following the one that is dictated to you

 
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matthias
  Mar 14, 08, 15:04  #101

tornado2007 wrote:
ow of course religion is all innocent :) don't make me laugh. WHen you finish banging whatever book you choose too and wake up maybe one day you will lead your own life instead of following the one that is dictated to you


Your retarted...... No one is adovating blind devotion.... But truly understanding the teachings.... Religion is a tool like a hammer... It can be used to build a house or destroy a house...

 
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lesser
Edited by: lesser  Mar 14, 08, 16:48  #102

matthias wrote:
if you want to bring the law into this than fine.... Law says abortion is legal.......


Current laws are worth nothing in general, bureaucratic mafia and populist politicians control this business. I think that if some university student as a some project provided Reform treaty of the EU there is serious possibility that his project would be rejected. Stupidity of this ridiculous "document" is amazing. This abortion law that you mentioned is in opposition to logic, paragraphs contradict each other. I think that I showed this clear enough above... What is more first abortion on demand laws were created by Hitler and Lenin, apparently ideological fathers of Europe...

matthias wrote:
Im only 24 so I had the chance to vote only once in the presidential elections, once in local and state elections... Either way I know how the game is played....


Nearly everybody who vote claim so. Then why nearly always we are ruled by thieving populists?

matthias wrote:
K, your still sending money to Africa be it a private organization or not... Don't twist the conversation. I support sending money to Africa and it seems you agree...


You are wrong, there is huge difference. In first case corrupt Euro-American politicians hand over money of their taxpayers to totally corrupt UN bureaucrats and they to maybe even more corrupt (if this is possible at all) African caciques. All of them steal more or less and in the end African caciques waste the rest of cash on programs from the start based on western subsidies. You could subside them to the end of the world and they would be still poor.

Second option when you willingly send your private money directly to organization that you trust. These money at least reach to the people, however wont change situation over there in general. This could be done only by Africans themselves.

z_darius wrote:
According to Big Bang theory neither time nor space existed before Big Bang minus Planck Time (Stephen Hawking ). Therefore, from the point of view of science nothing existed. Science does not research "nothing".


According to this theory nothing existed but science cannot blindly trust some certain theories, reject others and abandon to investigate such problems. Beside of this if they say that nothing was before so where is action - reaction connection (związek przyczynowo-skutkowy)? IMO serious hole in this theory.

 
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matthias
Edited by: matthias  Mar 14, 08, 17:00  #103

lesser wrote:
Current laws are worth nothing in general, bureaucratic mafia and populist politicians control this business. I think that if some university student as a some project provided Reform treaty of the EU there is serious possibility that his project would be rejected. Stupidity of this ridiculous "document" is amazing. This abortion law that you mentioned is in opposition to logic, paragraphs contradict each other. I think that I showed this clear enough above... What is more first abortion on demand laws were created by Hitler and Lenin, apparently ideological fathers of Europe...


I was talking about theology with you, when you decided to steer the convesation towards the law... So I did and when I proved to you the law supports abortion you decried the law was run by beurocratic mafia... Make up your mind if your going to use the law to support your own arguements you cannot dismiss it when I do the same.. If you want to talk about theology that's fine with me but dont start twisting the convesation to talk about law and then complain when it doesn't go your way..

lesser wrote:
Nearly everybody who vote claim so. Then why nearly always we are ruled by thieving populists?


did I say all politicians are good... No, thats why were are ruled by thieving populists... I said some are good and if they can do good for the country being pro abortion should not prevent me from voting from them... Many pro abortion(which I dont support) polictians have done a lot of good for the country... This should not prevent me from voting for them.....

lesser wrote:
You are wrong, there is huge difference. In first case corrupt Euro-American politicians hand over money of their taxpayers to totally corrupt UN bureaucrats and they to maybe even more corrupt (if this is possible at all) African caciques. All of them steal more or less and in the end African caciques waste the rest of cash on programs from the start based on western subsidies. You could subside them to the end of the world and they would be still poor.

Second option when you willingly send your private money directly to organization that you trust. These money at least reach to the people, however wont change situation over there in general. This could be done only by Africans themselves.


No your wrong, the discussion was about sending money to Africa, we werent discussing how this should be done.... I see you like putting words in my mouth and twisting the conversation to support your arguements... I support sending money to Africa was my arguement but didn't say how, yet you said at first that you don't support sending money... when I said your not a good Christian if you don't think we should help, you changed your mind and said you support sending money through private organizations... Whats the differance between me saying I support sending money to Africa and you saying you support sending money to Africa through private organizations????? I just wasn't as specific as you.....

lesser wrote:
According to this theory nothing existed but science cannot blindly trust some certain theories, reject others and abandon to investigate such problems. Beside of this if they say that nothing was before so where is action - reaction connection (związek przyczynowo-skutkowy)? IMO serious hole in this theory.


Give this a read, I don't think you understand completely what the evidence for the big bang theory is....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

 
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z_darius
  Mar 14, 08, 21:11  #104

lesser wrote:
According to this theory nothing existed but science cannot blindly trust some certain theories, reject others and abandon to investigate such problems.

But science does not trust any theories blindly. It creates them based on research and objective evidence. Science IS a result of investigation. Religion does not investigate but assumes things apriori and uses dogmas.

lesser wrote:
Beside of this if they say that nothing was before so where is action - reaction connection (związek przyczynowo-skutkowy)? IMO serious hole in this theory.

If you weren't so passionate about rejecting science as worth while then you would use this very part of the post to show how science actually proves that the supernatural exists and is the cause of all things. There is a catch to that though, but at this time the catch is pretty debatable.

OK, give it a shot.

 
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adilski
  Mar 15, 08, 10:30  #105

not really , i dont htink my parents - strong followers of the lat pope (god bless him) are that freaked out by there being a german pope, the key thing is to be united as folowers of jesus christ. the message is for all of us.

 
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matthias
  Mar 15, 08, 16:22  #106

lesser wrote:
I'm talking about RCC, I cannot discuss about other versions cause I have not such knowledge


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-euevolution16mar16 ,0,3494508.story

Here's an article for you about how they try to teach evolution is a lie......

 
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lesser
  Mar 19, 08, 17:34  #107

matthias wrote:
I was talking about theology with you


I don't need religious arguments to proof my point on this issue. This is you who raised the issue of sin.

matthias wrote:
Many pro abortion(which I dont support) polictians have done a lot of good for the country... This should not prevent me from voting for them.....


Without offense but I tend to doubt whether you know what is good for a country... So again, what is a top priority for a Christian innocent human life or cash? If a politician promise second heaven just after we kill all Lithuanians, why not vote for him? What would prevent you from such decision?

matthias wrote:
No your wrong, the discussion was about sending money to Africa, we werent discussing how this should be done....

matthias wrote:
K, your still sending money to Africa be it a private organization or not...


I cannot ignore such comments... Beside of that I oppose aid from governments and don't oppose (neither support because this will never resolve their problems) sending private money.

z_darius wrote:
But science does not trust any theories blindly. It creates them based on research and objective evidence. Science IS a result of investigation. Religion does not investigate but assumes things apriori and uses dogmas.


I agree but scientists must proof their theories before announcing to be the only correct.

z_darius wrote:
If you weren't so passionate about rejecting science as worth while then you would use this very part of the post to show how science actually proves that the supernatural exists and is the cause of all things. There is a catch to that though, but at this time the catch is pretty debatable.


When we talking about beliefs then I don't need to question something which don't pretend to be science. When somebody would claim otherwise I would question his point and this would not be very difficult.

 
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matthias
  Mar 19, 08, 18:37  #108

lesser wrote:
I don't need religious arguments to proof my point on this issue. This is you who raised the issue of sin.


dude you already forgot what your talking about.... you used law to argue your position and when I did the same you said the law is useless.....

lesser wrote:
I cannot ignore such comments... Beside of that I oppose aid from governments and don't oppose (neither support because this will never resolve their problems) sending private money.


that's where your wrong..... If a government sends to money or food for a African family..... I consider that helping....

 
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z_darius
  Mar 19, 08, 21:01  #109

lesser wrote:
I agree but scientists must proof their theories before announcing to be the only correct.

Scientists will announce some of their findings, even if incomplete, for the rest of the scientific community to express their views on new discoveries. It's called peer review. Sometimes the new discovery is proven wrong, sometimes gaps are filled in.

A religious equivalent of peer review is called blasphemy.

lesser wrote:
When we talking about beliefs then I don't need to question something which don't pretend to be science. When somebody would claim otherwise I would question his point and this would not be very difficult.

You missed my point. No matter though. You are comparing belief to fact anyway. You reject verifiable facts as full of holes, and yet you accept scriptures with all their internal inconsistencies.

 
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lesser
Edited by: lesser  Mar 20, 08, 11:17  #110

matthias wrote:
dude you already forgot what your talking about.... you used law to argue your position and when I did the same you said the law is useless.....


I was talking about universal in western civilization concepts originated from Roman law. While you about paragraphs written by thieves based on their greediness. First option is in agreement with logic and common sense, second serve populism and thievery.

matthias wrote:
that's where your wrong..... If a government sends to money or food for a African family..... I consider that helping....


You should read my description of this "helping" once again...

z_darius wrote:
Scientists will announce some of their findings, even if incomplete, for the rest of the scientific community to express their views on new discoveries. It's called peer review. Sometimes the new discovery is proven wrong, sometimes gaps are filled in.


I agree but they cannot claim something to be definitely right without proof.

z_darius wrote:
You missed my point. No matter though. You are comparing belief to fact anyway. You reject verifiable facts as full of holes, and yet you accept scriptures with all their internal inconsistencies.


I reject only statements that unconfirmed theories cannot be questioned. Similar issue with human influence on global warming. They don't have evidence at all but still don't want even discuss with people whom disagree. While I believe in creationism because I don't see anybody who could be able to provide a reliable explanation based on evidence. If something like this happen I can reconsider.

 
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matthias
  Mar 20, 08, 11:24  #111

lesser wrote:
I was talking about universal in western civilization concepts originated from Roman law. While you about paragraphs written by thieves based on their greediness. First option is in agreement with logic and common sense, second serve populism and thievery.


Actually the law orginated from the bible, Roman law and hannarbi's code......

lesser wrote:
You should read my description of this "helping" once again...


I'd rather read the description in the dictionary of what helping means....

 
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lesser
  Mar 20, 08, 11:30  #112

matthias wrote:
I'd rather read the description in the dictionary of what helping means....


Check out "stealing" as well.

 
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matthias
Edited by: matthias  Mar 20, 08, 11:35  #113

lesser wrote:
Check out "stealing" as well.


what's the point????? what are your trying to prove here???? if it's what Im thinking than we don't disagree....

 
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lesser
  Mar 20, 08, 11:43  #114

If you would read carefully my previous posts you would know...

 
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matthias
  Mar 20, 08, 11:46  #115

lesser wrote:
If you would read carefully my previous posts you would know...


Unfortunatly the converstation was about a week ago, it's not my fault it took you so long to respond....I had hundreds of posts to read since then...........

 
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